Searching for parthenocarpic tomato

[Alex]

Hi Adrian,

Have you ladybug?

Flying and crawling aphids, plus hordes of ants. There is a ladybug, but it doesn't help much, there are too many aphids.

for fight against aphids we have tried a solution with water and black soap.

I'll try black soap. Aphids don't react to regular soap at all.

[Alex]

I can understand that what I'm telling you may seem extraordinary being there's nothing I've said negative about pat-b.

On what original variety did mutation occur?

[Brent M]

On what original variety did mutation occur?

It wasn't one variety.  It was a cross of two open-pollinated varieties.

[Alex]

It wasn't one variety.  It was a cross of two open-pollinated varieties.

It is kept secret what varieties they were?

[Brent M]

It is kept secret what varieties they were?

I've given the methodology--the steps of how it happened.  It's information that I could have held.  In that methodology, I spoke to all the crosses made minus the parental lines.  Zero of them presented parthenocarpy except one cross.  If I give that cross' parents out, that could lead to reproducing the mutant...potentially, because all the pieces are known.  Wouldn't you be worried that others will attempt to replicate it?  That's rhetorical cause we both know people will immediately trounce on it just as so many are breeding with the new purple tomato--self motivations.  It my mind, that's equivalent to me actually giving the seeds to my current lines out right now.  It's counter-productive to where I am.  I want the control, not have it taken from me.  If I make the decision release pat-b for free use, I'll tell the full story and give away the seed.  So, will I release the parents?  Maybe some day.  Will I release the seed?  Maybe some day.  I'm being honest and transparent as I promised.  I could have simply lied and given out two parents that were never in the process.  My question to you is:  Why do you want to know the varieties?

FYI, I am a vegetable breeder.  I also work with pepper, eggplant, melon, okra, squash, watermelon, cucumber and more.  Generally speaking, I don't release the parental lines of any of my work.  I do, however, give out parts of it for the same reason mentioned above.

[KaguyaCloud]

To be fair, if it was a result of a genuine random mutation from stress, it's quite unlikely that it might happen again. Have you ever successfully attempted to replicate the gene by crossing the same parents again?

I think you are still at an advantage against any breeder, even if you say what the parents are. At this point even if others get started on their breeding project with that gene, you have an extremely long head start. If you distribute the seeds now, you would be able to massively stress test your varieties in various climates and disease conditions. That's the beauty of open source. But it's still your seeds after all.

[Alex]

At the moment, this is just talk. There is nothing available to the end consumer.
It is very unlikely that from revealing parents, a mutation will occur again, probability is almost 0. Knowing parents, you can evaluate offspring by heat resistance, cold resistance, drought resistance, moisture resistance, etc.
Personally, I do not hide anything, because task is for people to be able to grow good tasty tomatoes, and not eat plastic from store, and I give out seeds to everyone who wants them.

[KaguyaCloud]

My goals are quite similarly aligned to Alex, as I comprehensively document as many details of my breeding projects as possible. I just want to breed tasty micro dwarf tomatoes to distribute for everyone to enjoy to grow indoors or in small pots. The only thing that's preventing me from releasing seed is my extremely high standards.

[Alex]

I tested the best heat-resistant tomatoes from the University of Hawaii. In hellish climate conditions of Guam with heat combined with high humidity, they all died, only one(!) fruit was obtained from all varieties tested. What does this mean? Maybe they didn't try very hard? Or are scientific staff really bad? At the same time, wild Hawaiian tomato showed the highest level of heat resistance, fertility and excellent taste.

[Brent M]

To be fair, if it was a result of a genuine random mutation from stress, it's quite unlikely that it might happen again. Have you ever successfully attempted to replicate the gene by crossing the same parents again?

I think you are still at an advantage against any breeder, even if you say what the parents are. At this point even if others get started on their breeding project with that gene, you have an extremely long head start. If you distribute the seeds now, you would be able to massively stress test your varieties in various climates and disease conditions. That's the beauty of open source. But it's still your seeds after all.

How gene's combine and segregate is related to the genetics input.  I have no reason to take chances nor have I heard the rationale for wanting to know.  I ask you respect my reasoning flawed or not.  I'm not giving out all the pieces.  I'm not going to do it...at least right now.

[Alex]

I comprehensively document as many details of my breeding projects as possible.

Commercial projects with closed data are simply not interesting to me personally, they have no practical benefit, they only slow down development.

[KaguyaCloud]

Commercial projects with closed data are simply not interesting to me personally, they have no practical benefit, they only slow down development.

Mine is publicly available(see link below). Closed research does drag out development, as it can lead to less chance of progress.
https://www.tomatojunction.com/viewtopic.php?t=4909&sid=a4204199bc19b5e57e03cc64582f4a7c

[Alex]

for fight against aphids we have tried a solution with water and black soap. 1 tablespoon for 1,5 - 2L of water in a pulverisatior.For a better dilution the water must be a little hot.

Zero effect even with 10x concentration.

[Tim DH]

Hi Alex,
     I feel your pain!
     Normally, with aphids, I wait until natural biological control kicks in, but very occasionally something is just too precious. In which case I isolate the affected plant/plants (so as not to damage any predators) and spray/drench them in a solution of Neem Oil. The recipe is 4cc Neem and 1cc Washing up liquid (to emulsify the neem) in a litre of warm water, well shaken, throughout the application process.
     The last time I did this was to 64 cells of brassica seedlings at first/second true leaf stage, which were being crippled by aphids. The result was TOTAL control.

Good Luck

Tim DH

[Alex]

We have very persistent pests, neem oil does not kill them even in very high concentrations. Nothing kills them at all. I have already written before that after a few months they adapted to eat S.habrochaites with a natural pesticide.