Breeding with wild tomato species

[Alex]

The corneliomuelleri I got from Joseph 7 years ago we thought had crossed with the peruvianum.

I would like to get it.

[Alex]

though later thought perhaps arcanum.

It smells identical to S.habrochaites, but not like S.arcanum.

[Justin Jardinier]

It smells identical to S.habrochaites, but not like S.arcanum.

Thanks. And now I have more experience with habrochaites, that does make sense looking at his photos again!

[Joseph Lofthouse]

The wheat genome began changing about 30,000 years before domestication, due to human influence.

I expect that the same types of genetic changes happened in South American tomatoes. I can get on Google Street View, and locate tomatoes growing wild in South America. If people are eating fruits from plants that occur naturally in their ecosystem, the plants are well on their way to pre-domestication without any formal breeding.

[Alex]

red arcanum https://www.hrseeds.com/product-page/solanum-arcanum-red-tomato-hr "This is a strange one, one bract on a Solanum Arcanum plant made red tomatoes! It is NOT a hybrid or cross of any kind it just simply put out a red variation of Solanum Arcanum."

This is not red S.arcanum. It is a hybrid of S.arcanum and S.lycopersicum. Its phenotype does not match S.arcanum and cannot be a hybrid with S.pimpinellifolium because the skin is soft.The taste is sour, the color is red and orange at the same time. It is self-compatible even though its parent is not.

[Justin Jardinier]

This is not red S.arcanum.

Its bizarre he ever believed it was!

[Garrett Schantz]

I tried comparing the pheno before, it matches one of the solanum arcanum types that HRseeds has.


Arcanum has at least four different phenos that I've seen. His arcanum is also SC. It produces with a single plant.



The fruits seem soft. I've also grown S. habrochaites with soft fruit. The flowers shouldn't be too exserted if it's a SC Arcanum.


Pretty much every wild tomato relative, has a SC form or whatever out there.


I believe one of his peruvianums is also SC.


But, I'd say the pheno matches at least on of the arcanums.



Depending on things, some wild tomatoes drop and rot or get eaten. Others burst.



So, I'm not sure if those mentioned qualities help out too much.



I haven't grown the red thing side by side with his arcanum. Or Arcanums.


Its nice that people are growing things to compare them though.


And the chances of there being a red tomato as a weird mutant, would be rare, to unlikely.


Though, if the seed was from an Arcanum, and he grows SC arcanums, the Arcanum could be the mother - he could've assumed that other tomatoes can't pollinate it.


Growing out the offspring could be fun. Just to see if it's a mutant or if things segregate.

[Garrett Schantz]

I will say that I remember there being a type two or something.

But the leaves look different on the other type being sold.


His weird hybrids and things are fun, nonetheless.

[Alex]

His arcanum is also SC. It produces with a single plant.

I grow it, no fruits. Never. So SI.

I believe one of his peruvianums is also SC.

No. I never get fruits from them.

the Arcanum could be the mother

It was in this case.

[Garrett Schantz]

I've had different results with those first two responses, so I dunno what to say there.

The third is a guess.

[William Schlegel]

Some populations of some wild species have mixed breeding systems SI and SC that is one possible explanation. You can also get to mixed when species cross.

[Justin Jardinier]

For those interested in this topic, here are 5 among many papers that might be of interest:

• Testing the SI × SC rule- Pollen-pistil interactions in interspecific crosses between members of the tomato clade (Solanum section Lycopersicon, Solanaceae) - You Soon Baek et al - 2015
• Interspecific reproductive barriers in the tomato clade/ Opportunities to decipher mechanisms of reproductive isolation - Patricia A. Bedinger et al. - 2010
• Genetics and Evolution of Reproductive Behavior in Solanaceae - PhD Thesis · Cathleen P Jewell - January 2016
• INVESTIGATION OF MULTIPLE INTERSPECIFIC REPRODUCTIVE BARRIERS IN SOLANUM SECTION LYCOPERSICON - PhD Dissertation - You Soon Baek - 2016
• The Plant Journal - 2002 - Kondo - Insights into the evolution of self‐compatibility in Lycopersicon from a study of stylar factors

[Justin Jardinier]

I just read that S. galapagense, which only flowers under short day conditions, can be made to flower in long day conditions by grafting to S. lycopersicum rootstock. Source:
Natural variation in circadian rhythms and photoperiodic flowering in tomato and its wild relatives - PhD thesis, Niels Müller - 2015

[Alex]

S. galapagense, which only flowers under short day conditions

This doesn't seem true. My day is 12 hours all year round. And it blooms. I have a number of other problems with it: leaves fall off (the same phenomenon for some of its hybrids), it easily dies from excess moisture combined with heat, beetles eat the roots.

[Justin Jardinier]

This doesn't seem true. My day is 12 hours all year round. And it blooms.

I'm no expert on day length but from what I understand, short day plants means they have a specific minimum length or darkness they need in order to flower. So I think a more appropriate term would really be 'long night' plants. And the actual length of night depends on the plant, it's not merely 'more than 12 hours'. I don't know what the cutoff point is for galapagense, but they definitely have a requirement, at least all the accessions I grew, and all but 1 cheesmaniae accession did too for me. The Galapagos Islands are near the equator so I'm guessing it's probably not far off 12 hours there. In the paper I referenced, from what I remember they had them on 16 hours of day length for over a year and they never flowered, so clearly they are not day neutral. And for me they only flowered after I significantly reduced day length.

And yes they are sensitive to too much water.