Breeding with wild tomato species

[William Schlegel]

Maybe, perhaps I am wrong. Their could be pathways in both directions and there are a lot of factors. The pollinators Bombus species in my 2021 patch seemed to be being true to species. They seemed to prefer SI arcanum, then SI habrochaites, then the more small dull flowers of domestics and promiscuous project elites. I'm not sure, cannot remember if the tiny closed flowers of the galapagense were even attracting pollinators. Though they all set seed. What I hoped would happen was habrochaites pollen flowing into those elites gene pools to produce new F1s which in 2022 might back flow into the habrochaites. But what my pollinator observations suggested was rather that cross species pollinations might be rare. Individual pollinators seemed to be working one species at a time skipping over other species.

R18 which has more habrochaites like flowers might interact differently with pollinators and habrochaites which I intend to investigate in 2022. Though I also have a great deal of seed to sift through looking for F1s. Based on Josephs searching that sifting should be literal as well as figurative. There were multiple different pollination behaviors if you will on individual elite promiscuous project plants some of which seem obligate out crossing like and some of which seem to indicate selfing. It's possible that the promiscuous tomato project is currently a mixed system. If so is it going to become fully selfing or fully out crossing? It is also kind of hard to know if I am right on that.

I had something like 6 R18 G2 plants in 2021. They had remarkable fidelity in terms of large colorful exserted flowers. The sort the video indicates co-occur with SI. Their behavior seemed more indicative of SI

[William Schlegel]

Thinking about the implications of that video for Joseph's self-incompatibility project in tomatoes. My guess is that 2021 elites in my garden from the promiscuous project were a mix of selfing and obligate outcrossing individuals. If I could leave that population to its own devices it would probably depend on a few variables including population size, latitude, gene flow, season length, etc. But ultimately the population would choose one system or another on its own. In a larger context if everyone growing promiscuous project tomatoes can be thought of as a metapopulation it also would depend a little on gene flow between populations. As long as their is gene flow between populations as long as some populations became entirely obligate outcrossing those would probably only flow one way. I think part of the reason that in habrochaites range the populations on the north and south ends are selfing is because of disruption of gene flow. So, if gene flow continues more and more promiscuous tomato populations should pick up obligate outcrossing.

Had a lot of red tomatoes in my bicolor only promiscuous tomato grow out of 2021. Not sure what percentage but even if not obligate outcrossing a lot of outcrossing occurred. Flower structure wise they are not even the most exserted tomato population in my gardens so if it is purely outcrossing based on flower structure even modest improvements towards outcrossing flower structure must increase outcrossing rates. Which suggests that high end flower structure improvements like those seen in R18 should have really high outcrossing rates. In 2022 my plan for R18 is currently as a backup for putative new hybrids which may or may not prove to exist for crossing with LA2329. In theory R18 should cross nicely with LA2329 in both directions. Which would bring LA2329 material closer to useability. However, if I end up with lots of LA2329 hybrids from my 2021 crossing block that may not even be necessary as the hybrids should act as a bridge. In 2020 I planted the backcross line next to the LA2329 growout, in 2021 I planted some promiscuous project elites around the LA2329 growout. I saw nothing I recognized as hybridization in LA2329. My 2021 LA2329 seed shows no signs of seed size changes. My guess would be that in terms of turning LA2329 into a back cross it hasn't happened yet but I would be happy to be surprised.

Since I seem to do well with deliberate crosses indoors I should consider starting a plant of LA2329 in January to see if I can get it blooming and use it as a pollen donor before I need to outplant everything for the summer. Hindsight is 2020 but I wish I had started a few more things in August when I started the MMS x BH F1. would love to be making crosses now. Is a good plan for 2022 though to plant a wider variety of seeds in August for winter grow out.

I didn't plant LA1410 galapagense in August maybe September or October but the one plant that survived is slowly getting bigger. Hopefully it will bloom soon and a winter cross with that can ensue. That would be fun! It is kind of the opposite of habrochaites. Tiny pale inserted flowers.

[Garrett Schantz]

Mentioned on another post that I went on vacation for 9 days - some seeds germinated during this time and became leggy due to lack of light.

Anyways, the typical Peruvianums are on the left, the "Off Peruvianum" seedling is on the right. Germination on the "Off Peruvianum is rather horrible. Maybe the others will eventually come up - I still have more seeds for it as well.

My seedlings are over a month old.


Time to post photos!


First image has the single sprout / seedling of "Off Peruvianum".

Second image has some other Peruvianums from one of Joseph's mixes from the Experimental Farm Network - next to Off Peruvianum

Third image has Exserted Orange along with Off Peruvianum.

Off Peru has larger leaves - appears to be growing faster compared to the others. It also had a later start than the others - the others were also leggy due to me being away for awhile.

Leaf type / size is interesting. Vigor is very nice.

[Garrett Schantz]

Made a video about my "Off Peruvianum" and a few other things.

Description of things in the video description.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XcL0yWfeJg


Even if this isn't a hybrid, it is a lot more vigorous / faster growing than the others.

[William Schlegel]

Decided to dip into hrseeds tomato gene pool a bit- actually my wife wanted to know something I wanted for Valentine's Day! So now I have:

Golden Currant Tomato
Galapagos Wild Tomato Hairy Strain (Minor) Type 1
Galapagos Island Tomato #2
Wild Currant Tomato from Peru
White Currant Tomato
Galapagos Island Tomato Type 3

With a couple other accessions of currant tomatoes that brings me to something like eight pimpinillifolium, four cheesemanii, and two galapagense for the most closely related to domestic tomato group. I need to actually use them and make some crosses with domestics! Though I do think I have a probable cross between the exserted pimp Andrew sent me and Golden Tressette which is also exserted. I need to grow out enough of it to get some segregation and confirm! Though my pipinillifolium count may be a bit askew as I imagine a few of what I am thinking of as separate accessions may be stable domestic hybrids and or ultimately come from the same source. The Spoon, Sweet 100, Mexican Midgets of the pimpinillifolium world- or are those all the same or almost the same accession genetically? Also, Coyote? It seems to me Coyote stands up a bit more and has more domestic type leaves than a true pimpinillifolium but is it a pimpinillifolium? Also, I have that Terrior seeds galapagos island tomato that is just too short season domesticated seeming- though entirely possible that it could be a hybrid with a domestic originating from the islands.

I want to grow out my whole collection from this group this year for seed increase, tasting (given Craig LeHouillier's taste top 10 spot for Mexican Midget), and hopefully some crossing.

Whilst Craig is on my brain- in the Dwarf Tomato Project it is interesting to me that a cross got made with "Everglades" but not with "Mexican Midget". Also, that "Everglades" cross dwarf might be interesting to acquire https://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_dwarf-johnsons-cherry.html maybe more interesting than Everglades itself being sort of a feral pimp type far from the center of diversity. Which is why I wanted "Wild Currant from Peru" from HRseeds.

Related question that just popped into my head: I wonder what happens when dwarfs which tend to be upright and self-supporting are crossed with Solanum pimpinillifolium which tends to be super sprawling and on the ground? Heard of a floppy dwarf recently so it might be multiple possibilities.

I will probably dip into HRseeds wild tomato diversity more next winter.

I should also probably get ready to plant a few seeds of each of these six.

I planted a few seeds of three other new to me pimpinillifolium types a few days ago and some other wilds in the further hard green groups.

Edit: I planted these six tonight. Did the TGRC bleaching protocol 1/2 hour for the pimpinillifolium accessiosn full hour for the islanders.

[Nicolas]

I will probably dip into HRseeds wild tomato diversity more next winter.

I was myself interested by one of their product, but costs of seeds + $10 for international shipping cost was too expensive. It should interest you :
"Here is the LA0247 Small flowered Wild Tomato, Solanum neorickii, Syn. Lycopersicon neorickii NSL 116851"
https://www.hrseeds.com/product-page/wild-tomato-solanum-neorickii

https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/AccDetail.aspx?AccessionNum=LA0247
Comments: 6/2010: genic data transferred from LA1855 8/2010: this is the accession reported by T. Chmielewskii to be bilaterally compatible with cultivated tomato.

[Garrett Schantz]

Golden Currant Tomato and Golden Currant both performed for me well in the past.

Galapagos Island Tomato Type 3 in the first two images. Seems to be a bit more compact than regular tomatoes based on the growth so far. Stems are more or less hairless.

Third image is Wild Currant Tomato from Peru. Different type of "currant tomato" commonly sold or available in seed banks. This type has pea sized fruit, penneli sized foliage and sprawls. Similar to the spoon tomato.

I wouldn't plant Wild Currant Tomato from Peru too closely to other tomato plants, its too small and low growing to compete with them. Bees usually don't touch the flowers, at least not the same bees touching other tomatoes. Pretty disease resistant, so if you do it anyways it probably won't hurt anything.

[Arjan vD]

I bought some lycopersicon peruvianum x esculentum seeds from ebay from Lupinaster. I asked him where he got the seeds originally and he told me they came from Trade wind fruits many years ago and that he bred them a couple generations futher.
Does anyone have any experience with these? The only information I could find was from someone on tomatoville that it was supposed to be a natural cross.

[Nicolas]

Damn I made two orders from him this year and i somewhat missed this one. D'oh!

Nice photos here : https://www.ebay.com/itm/325034787224

Wild Peruvian Tomato (hybrid) - Lycopersicon peruvianum x esculentum - 10 seeds
The rare Peruvian wild tomato and common tomato hybrid. Ripe fruit is edible and delicious. Drought resistant. Phytophtora resistant in part degree. A very rare hybrid form. Package 10 fresh seeds (harvested from our garden).

[William Schlegel]

Hard to say. Supposedly Alan Kapuler claimed some peruvianum in the background of Golden Tressette which is why Andrew and I started growing it a few years ago but really with a lot of introgressions if there is not some obvious trait still in the line it would be pretty hard to tell absent genetic testing! Also, obvious traits can be deceptive. Kapuler's claim was based on natural crossing and that could occur, or you could mistake hybrids of a species that crosses more readily absent genetic testing. Similarly, the heirloom dwarf Payette bred in Idaho has some small introgression from both peruvianum and habrochaites according to its published pedigree but as a percentage of its pedigree it is really small. Basing things on pedigrees can be deceptive because selection for domestic traits can up the actual percentage of domestic genes in a hybrid lineage a great deal.

Andrew obtained some new to us accessions a few years ago from the US gene banks and I should really grow them out again this year for seed increase. At least one of them crossed with Joseph's strain of peruvianum when I grew them out the first time and some of them are definitely interspecies hybrids. If I have some time, I'll start a few seeds of each this weekend with the bleaching protocols.

[AndrewB]

Thanks William,  yes please. Im really excited about peruvianum hybrids adding something to this project!

[William Schlegel]

I want someday to revive my plan to do some embryo rescue crosses with peruvianum. I don't know when I'll have the necessary free time. Maybe if someday, I stop doing field botany in the summer and have it off from teaching. For that I would want a lot of plants so that I could make a lot of crosses to make a day of doing the embryo rescue really productive.

I already planted four seeds of LA2329 Solanum chilense this year and they are looking like four nice, if a little etiolated, seedlings. Growing fast. My last attempt at chilense led to only one survivor of the Sacred Succulents strain which failed to find an acceptable pollen source in my garden. I am only doing four seeds because I have a feeling it would be best to graft it onto penellii x domestic. It sounded like LA2329 might have some potential as a bridge.

There are those potentialities for crossing peruvianum with penellii and was it habrochaites that were intriguing too. I tried it with Joseph's penellii strain and no luck, but the plant eventually set some fruit fathered by the new strains of peruvianum hybrids Andrew got that year. It might be fun to try it with habrochaites next as I don't have any other strains of penellii yet. For late blight I was going to plant one clump of a LB resistant accession of habrochaites into an isolation block. Maybe I should plan to put one plant of Lofthouse strain peruvianum next to it. I am pretty sure this will be in this old wooden shady bed in the backyard. Could be interesting if it sets fruit!

I have just been seed increasing the Arcanum I obtained for several years- it apparently from the literature will not bridge with peruvianum but it will cross with domestic. I have not yet noticed a hybrid but am currently planting out seed that could have hybridized with it. The plant that was my favorite promiscuous project plant in the 2021 garden was actually situated right between the Arcanum clump and the LA2329 clump and there are hybrid looking seedlings they just aren't old enough yet to see if they are arcanum or habrochaites though currently assuming habrochaites. There is a lot more seed to propagate from that plant.

Also, I am exploring some more pimpinillifolium germplasm this year. I think maybe my fascination with the hard crosses with habrochaites and company have led me to overlook it in past years but there are some really important resistances in ordinary old pimpinillifolium accessions like for that brown rugose fruit virus and late blight.

[William Schlegel]

Sowed:

LA3314 packet empty
LA4136 packet empty
PI 306814
PI 193422
PI 298934 Poland
PI 238935
PI 306812
LA3313
Peruvianum Lofthouse x Barney a hybrid of Lofthouse's strain of peruvianum with one of the above that Andrew sent me.
LA1708 S. Arcanum original packet- I want to grow the two arcanum accessions I have isolated from one another this year and next I haven't seen any sign that they can hybridize with any other tomato species at least not as a mother.
Andrews exserted pimpinillifolium
White currant from HR seeds since first sowing hasn't germinated
LA1410 galapagense
S. Cheesemaniae mix of LA0428 and LA0429

Note: I owe my start on all of the above to Andrew Barney except the Arcanum which I requested and the white currant from HR seeds. Hopefully the two that are now empty packets will regenerate fresh seeds. Hopefully they all will but nothing is certain.

Soaked all but the islanders in 1/2 strength bleach for .5 hour and the islanders for 1 hr. Added a drop of free and clear dish soap as surfactant. 

Also soaked and planted the seeds from the MMS plant from the LA2329 habrochaites crossing block. Any regular leaf seedling will be a hybrid even if with just the other domestics but one with LA2329 would be special. Still have five more packets to sow from the block. Including three more from the two promiscuous project mothers that produced the currently growing putative hybrids. Speaking of which I think the true leaves are now large enough to tell and that it may be time to drop my use of the word "putative".

[William Schlegel]

I got frustrated with work stuff and took a tomato break. The last five packets of seed from the LA2329 Solanum habrochaites crossing block are planted. Except not the Solanum habrochaites itself just seeds from the mothers I hope were pollinated by them. Didn't see large numbers of smaller seeds but saw some. All told this effort has now emptied out twelve packets of seed from last year's LA2329 crossing block and so far from the first three germination attempts resulted in an estimated ten hybrid seedlings from two mothers. Now in the next ten days or so I would find out if the other likely mothers produced any crosses.

Oh, there are a few more packets out there but what they are is a couple promiscuous project mothers who proved to be inserted. I do not expect those mothers to produce any hybrids. Though perhaps I should germinate them sometime just to find out. Maybe I have super bees! Though I doubt it- if I did, I would probably have noticed by now. Also, there are the two packets of LA2329 seed I produced in 2021. In theory some of those could have been pollinated by the promiscuous tomato project but that was the case last year as well and I didn't notice anything.

I used the bleaching protocol of 1/2 hour again at 1/2 strength. It worked well for the first two packets.

The Big Hill mothered packet had a lot of seed in it.

Exserted Tiger Packet not as much maybe 100- 200 or so.

The two promiscuous mothers it was much less seed but as least as much as last time. One problem with the bleaching protocol is it makes it hard to evenly distribute the seeds because they clump when wet.

So will see if I get any more hybrids. If not the ten or so I have will have to do! Hopefully they will survive and thrive!

[Garrett Schantz]

I bought some lycopersicon peruvianum x esculentum seeds from ebay from Lupinaster. I asked him where he got the seeds originally and he told me they came from Trade wind fruits many years ago and that he bred them a couple generations futher.
Does anyone have any experience with these? The only information I could find was from someone on tomatoville that it was supposed to be a natural cross.

He also has "Wild Tomato hybrid (F2) - Lycopersicon arcanum x esculentum".

Whole lot of breeding material on his page.