Direct Seeded Tomato Project

[William Schlegel]

My 2023 direct seeded patches are doing well. I guess I have four of them. Two to resurrect my 2022 MMM x The One crossing block and two for Lofthouse promiscuous project tomatoes. I also have a number of volunteers. I potted up a flat of the volunteers from the compost though and just outplanted them today. Lots of potato leaf tomatoes in the volunteers. From leaf color and shape at least two other kinds as well. A very few of the in situ volunteers are way ahead of the direct seeded because I did not manage to direct seed early this year but rather did it late.

Some of the best volunteers are in the MMM x The One crossing block in the original location and are likely MMM F3 plants or MMS F6 plants.

I have one very large regular leaf volunteer in the newer fenced garden in the spot where so many Lofthouse promiscuous project plants volunteered last year.

[William Schlegel]

I never watered the volunteer and direct seeded patch of Mission Mountain and The One / Little Pumpkins in the far SW garden this year. Tomatoes did fine without water. Especially those that got an early start. Got one intentional cross from it too.

Direct seeding worked great again in 2023. All the patches survived and bore ripe fruit. Seed got saved from many of them.

Biggest mystery was long truss cherry and current sized tomatoes in three of the direct seeded gardens. Found them in the promiscuous patch, the The One patch, and the direct seeded row of the Mission Mountain and The One crossing block. None in the original SW garden though.

[Adrian]

Hi ,william,
Have you some news of your project?

I have found some F4 between tiny tim and green giant germinated directely and some F3 between canestrino di lucca x andine cornue at the end of march.
At the end of the season i have noted that the seeds issues of f1 f2 and f3 selected in the same environnement can germinated more easily that the seeds of cosanguin variety. Above all if the fruits fallen near to the mother plant.
Unfortunately i dont use wild variety.

Eaven two varietys not adapted can be recombinated for be adapted at your environnement in the F2.

[William Schlegel]

I'm thinking about using my 2024 direct seeded patch to produce more seed of my 2022 and 2023 current tomato crosses. Also perhaps a larger growout of promiscuous x LA2329 to see if any elites can be recovered. Optimum time to plant direct seeded here is between April 26th and May 15th. Currently have a rainy weather pattern that is likely to interfere with site preparation as the tilth isnt right for rototilling. The NE garden was fallow last year and would be an optimal choice but is grassy with Agropyron repens or Thinopyrum repens if you prefer.

[reed]

I have hundreds of direct seeded plants doing nicely, although under cover of a makeshift cold frame. In another area of the garden there are numerous volunteers that have had no protection at all, also doing well. They have survived a couple of frosts without damage, but a freeze is predicted for tonight. If any survive tonight, I'll transplant and keep them. I'm pretty sure all of the volunteers are Pimp related.

[Justin Jardinier]

William, what are the main traits needed for direct seeded tomatoes? I'm guessing maybe... ability to germinate at lower temperatures? And maybe resistance to being eaten by... slugs?... when tiny?

[William Schlegel]

William, what are the main traits needed for direct seeded tomatoes? I'm guessing maybe... ability to germinate at lower temperatures? And maybe resistance to being eaten by... slugs?... when tiny?

Actually, what I learned starting clear back in 2017 is that whatever it takes for tomatoes to be direct seeded is highly conserved. Most if not all domestic tomatoes can be direct seeded. One caveat here is shortness of season needs to be there so that it is a good match for the growing season. That is now one of my ongoing uses of the technique: climate matching. Direct seeding is something I thought would be difficult and require breeding and turned out not to be here for my climate.

I am not sure if young seedlings have much genetic resistance to predation. It might be rapid seedling growth and a numbers game.

Germination at low temperatures might not be desirable if it leads to Germination before last hard frosts. Regulation of when Germination occurs is important though.

Some wild species such as Solanum habrochaites seem to not germinate when direct seeded and others like Solanum peruvianum do. At least the accessions I've tested. I think this is due to habitat mismatch. Some wild species just are not R selected for growing as field weeds.

So the technique doesn't work for everyone and their could be genetic reasons for that or it could be that their are just mismatches in some instances that transplanting solves. The direct seeded promiscuous project grex I shared with Going to Seed was direct seeded and contained a healthy slug of Joseph's direct seeded strain that finally survived a bit in his conditions for a couple years.

So despite my great success with the technique it is really folks who have difficulty direct seeding who may find out if their are traits that can be selected for. Best situation would be to get a few percent survivors and then see those have offspring with greater success like Joseph did. Zero survivors is an unfortunate possibility.

Also, I can't help but believe that volunteering and direct seeding are related. However, some years volunteers are abundant, and other years they are not. Direct seeding is much more reliable than volunteering. Uncertain why though with direct seeding you know where to look for the seedlings. Rain events of around one inch may be important.
 

[Cathy A]

I find that even in my cold climate, tomatoes will direct seed on their own unless I carefully clean up the bed and remove all of the fallen fruit at the end of the season.

But I only get a reasonable yield from the direct seeded volunteers when my between-frosts season is longer than average for my region.

Based on my experience, William is exactly right that the key trait is short-season, going quickly from germination to putting out fruit.

The other one that I would find useful is ability to keep setting fruit reliably when nights are routinely in the 50s, but with no frost.

[reed]

Volunteer tomatoes are extremely common in my garden. Some come up way to soon and get frozen down, some come up later. There are always some that get it right and come up at just the right time to grow. I don't know that it has much to do with genetic differences. I think it is mostly just luck of the draw as to how deep the seed might have been buried and different microclimates due to varying levels of mulch or winter weeds. We do have some small slugs that take out a lot of very small volunteer seedlings along with the later freezes.

I've seen some indication that never having had any root disturbance a volunteer, left in place, seems to have some advantage over transplants and it seems to be across the board, including enhanced disease and drought tolerance as well as earlier maturity. It's just something I've kind of noticed but never taken the time to test or observe in any controlled manner. If true though it is a good argument for simply direct seeding in my climate. Only drawback might be a little later maturity which would increase vulnerability to hotter dryer conditions during fruiting.

[Justin Jardinier]

I've seen some indication that never having had any root disturbance a volunteer, left in place, seems to have some advantage over transplants and it seems to be across the board, including enhanced disease and drought tolerance as well as earlier maturity.

Have you compared volunteers left in place with the same type sprouted at the same time but moved? If so that would be interesting. Also, do you include your garden soil in your mix in which you grow seeds in pots? If not, then perhaps some/most/all of the advantage could come from endophytes?

[William Schlegel]

Cathy's comment is true for Northern gardeners. I think many varieties that do well here already have that ability to keep producing with cold nights. We have a remarkable legacy here of both short season red varieties bred regionally like Bison and its descendants and short season red varieties bred in ~similar climates around the world like the very popular Stupice and Glacier. Reading about Yeager's quest to breed Bison and its early descendants it is remarkable what a heavy lift that was in many ways. Here because our disease situation doesn't seem to change rapidly, it does seem like all the old varieties are still perfectly relevant and that simple crosses between heirlooms and modern open pollinated varieties like Brad Gate's fancy varieties could lead to perfectly adapted local varieties like my Mission Mountain Sunrise which has no particular resistances and did quite poorly for Cathy! Though as climate is a continuously changing variable and pathogens tend to spread that could change at any time.

Reed: direct seeding definitely pushes back maturity for me. It can be thought of for my climate as planting the late crop. In many ways transplanting is a type of season extension and a way to concentrate the seedlings. Transplanting has some advantages like letting us have more time to prep the fields / gardens and less time needing to hand weed out in the fields / gardens. This observation of better plant health is intriguing though- Organic gardening and farming is partly about finding ways to manage the ecology of soil and plants to improve plant health naturally and observations like that could and should be core thinking for an organic system. Sort of a thought experiment on that: a direct seeded or volunteer seedling would never be exposed to potting soil, would interact with soil organisms sooner including both mutualists and pathogens, and would have a natural root system uninterrupted by transplanting and growth in pots.

[reed]

Have you compared volunteers left in place with the same type sprouted at the same time but moved? If so that would be interesting. Also, do you include your garden soil in your mix in which you grow seeds in pots? If not, then perhaps some/most/all of the advantage could come from endophytes?

No, I haven't really done and tracked the experiments to know for sure. I don't generally even keep most volunteers and if I do, I usually move them. The times I have left them in place, like last year with some volunteer Hoosier Rose they were more massive and more productive than the Hoosier Rose transplants. 

My potting soil is a mix of partially composted leaves mixed with soil scooped up from the garden and sifted. I've wondered if endophytes play a role and also if bad organisms play a role. My theory there is detrimental organisms have opportunity to gain access through broken roots of a transplant that they don't have with an in-place volunteer. 

[Cathy A]

"Mission Mountain Sunrise which has no particular resistances and did quite poorly for Cathy!"

For what it's worth, I have germinated more MMR this year and will be trying it again, and attempting some crosses if more successful than last year.

So far it has been a late, extremely wet spring, with two large snowstorms in late March/early April and enough rain since then to prevent anything from drying out. The snow is nearly all melted, but the ground is sopping wet and muddy.There are a couple of inches of standing water right behind the garden.

I expect to get a late start for anything direct seeded this year, and wonder if it will be another disease-prone year.

[reed]

I guess short of chartering a jet to deliver each other's freshly picked tomatoes we will never know how they compare to each other in flavor. Here tomatoes keep blooming and producing after the weather turns cooler, all the way up till frost but flavor seems to decline in direction proportion to the reduced temperatures. The last ripe tomatoes of the season are still better than store bought but are just a shadow of what they are in warmer weather. The last green ones are great fried though, and they store well for a couple of weeks.

[William Schlegel]

"Mission Mountain Sunrise which has no particular resistances and did quite poorly for Cathy!"

For what it's worth, I have germinated more MMR this year and will be trying it again, and attempting some crosses if more successful than last year.

So far it has been a late, extremely wet spring, with two large snowstorms in late March/early April and enough rain since then to prevent anything from drying out. The snow is nearly all melted, but the ground is sopping wet and muddy.There are a couple of inches of standing water right behind the garden.

I expect to get a late start for anything direct seeded this year, and wonder if it will be another disease-prone year.

Mission Mountain Rising is the grandchild of Mission Mountain Sunset but all three generations MMS, MMM, and MMR are domestic x domestic crosses from parents not selected by me for resistance. So any resilience found is by chance in those lines! The newer current tomato crosses on the other hand have some potential!