Crossing and Bridging with Solanum peruvianum

[Arjan vD]

First flower on the peruvianum x pennellii hybrid opened today.

 

[William Schlegel]

Very neat!

[Arjan vD]

Another one of my peruvianum x pennellii cross started flowering and this one has a curved style like pennellii.

[AndrewB]

William, is LA4136 the peruvianum hybrid that was mostly domestic?

I planted out a few late planted plants if it was of LA4136.

Planted in the raised bed next to the F4 pennellii hybrid and the weird fruit tomato from last year that I kept alive. All three should have enough wild alleles to pollinate each other.

Another plant was planted in the Dwarf planter where my orange rocket microdwarf died.

[William Schlegel]

Yep

[Justin Jardinier]

How's the peruvianum x pennellii hybrid going? I'd be interested if it was self compatible, what it was able to cross with in what directions, and how the fruits are looking, if you'd be interested to share Arjan.

[Justin Jardinier]

I've just been reading a paper which might be of interest - a potential way of bringing in peruvianum genetics without using embryo rescue. Still complicated but might be easier to do?

The paper is SOME EXPERIMENTS WITH TETRAPLOID TOMATOES
BY ERNST NlLSSON
PLANT BREEDING STATION J. E. OHLSEN'S ENKE A,-B., MALMB, SWEDEN

I think the publication date is 1950. I found it as I was searching about the potential for tetraploid tomatoes for better performance in Northerly climates. His conclusion seems to be that tetraploids usually don't work well for tomatoes, but could with breeding have the potential to be as good or perhaps a little better than diploids. I felt what was missing from his study was a proper investigation of varied genetics. I'm surprised for example that he didn't start with F1 diploids before making tetraploids out of them, I would think using F1 or F2 would be better, and I would think even using F1 or F2 interspecial crosses would be a very good idea to try. I wonder if that could be great for stacking disease resistance for example.

Also it seemed he was testing in a hot house, from what I understood, whereas I would think it more valuable to test outdoors. He was focused on the conditions that commercial grower in Sweden use, but I would think better to focus on outdoor growing, because perhaps they would have the potential to make commercial growing possible without the expensive needs of indoor growing.

Anyway, regarding my topic title, he did have success with pimpinellifolium, which surprised him, and I wonder if that might be due to more genetic variation in the population? Depends I guess on the outcrossing rate in the pimps he was using. But anyway, here's a quote:

Just because the inferior fertility associated with polyploidy largely
is of dilplontic type one ought not to deny that it may sometimes be
haplontic. This has already been mentioned in the discussion of LESLEY' reciprocal crosses between triploid and diploid tomatoes and is also
apparent from the briefly mentioned crosses between L. pimpinellifolium
and L. peruvianum examined by COOPER and BRINK (1. c.). They obtained the following results:
4x pimp. X 2s pimp.: no developed seeds
4x pimp. X 2s peruv.: many no developed seeds
2x pimp. X 2s peruv.: no no developed seeds

With 4x pimpinellifolium as mother a species-foreign peruvianum genome - but not a pimpinellifolium-genome of identical type - can
result in complete development of seed contrary to what happens when
2x pimpinellifolium is the mother. Here there must be some interaction
between genic and physiologic factors.

So I wonder, if it's not too hard for non-laboratory people to make a tetraploid pimp, and somehow get diploids back from resulting triploids, then it could be useful to get resulting pimp-per hybrid diploids from this and then cross that combination to lyc.

I'm now working on a project to bring per. into edibles via a pennellii bridge. But working with already edible pimps could have advantages over this. I still think the pen. bridge is a good idea as maybe some nice pest resistance could come from pen. too, as well maybe as some flavours, but it might be a longer journey to edibility. So I thought I would share this info in case anyone is interested. Plus I think that it could be quite interesting to make tetraploids from wide crosses - it might even be a quicker way to bring in disease resistance with large fruit size?

I also like his writing style  It seems quite different to modern academic writing! Quite pleasant and personal.

The full paper:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1601-5223.1950.tb03371.x

[William Schlegel]

Want me to combine the Two threads?

[Justin Jardinier]

Oh, I didn't think of that. Whatever you feel is best William, I trust your judgement!

[William Schlegel]

https://www.tomatofest.com/Double_Rich_p/tf-0147.htm

Reading a reprint from about 1956 of Albert F Yeager's Breeding New Vegetable Varieties.

I just flipped ahead to the tomato section and under Doublerich tomato it says "First crosses were made between common tomatoes and P.I. 126946, Lycopersicum peruvianum."

Then back crossed to domestic twice and selected for vitamin c. So 1/8 peruvianum.

Coproduction of NDSU and New Hampshire.

[Justin Jardinier]

I just flipped ahead to the tomato section and under Doublerich tomato it says "First crosses were made between common tomatoes and P.I. 126946, Lycopersicum peruvianum."

Sounds interesting. Have you ever eaten it? I had kind of expected an increase in vitamin C and shelf life in some of these interspecific crosses, so that's reassuring news, I read that has both.

[William Schlegel]

No I kind of want to order a packet but you know already have 95 New packets...

[Garrett Schantz]

I believe that I've mentioned Double Rich somewhere here before.


Payette has some peruvianum.



Burnley Bounty, from Australia. Or bred there. It appears to be a higher percentage peruvianum. It appears to be daylight sensitive.



Purple Smudge, also has peruvianum genetics. It was backcrossed into Peruvianum, again if I remember correctly.


Some others have claimed that its a mutation, but further pressing and they couldn't provide a source, besides research facilities which claim it has S. peruvianum in it.



I may or may not to a ton of wilds this year. I'm in a better position to grow things this year.


Double Rich and Payette, probably won't help much as bridges.


I've had plans of trying to cross Double Rich and Burnley Bounty - plus purple Smudge, over and over again into a grex or whatever.


I'd need to cross them into an exserted tomato first.


And then, let them grow near S. peruvianum and maybe other crosses.

[William Schlegel]

Reading the book Organic Crop Breeding. It says that embryo rescue is considered not ok for organic breeding with some exception for older varieties like Owyhee, Payette, and Doublerich.

Though there are other potential work arounds for breeding with peruvianum like crossing first with Solanum habrochaites.

Edit: in 2018 IFOAM decided this was an ok method after all.

[William Schlegel]

https://www.tomatofest.com/Double_Rich_p/tf-0147.htm

Reading a reprint from about 1956 of Albert F Yeager's Breeding New Vegetable Varieties.

I just flipped ahead to the tomato section and under Doublerich tomato it says "First crosses were made between common tomatoes and P.I. 126946, Lycopersicum peruvianum."

Then back crossed to domestic twice and selected for vitamin c. So 1/8 peruvianum.

Coproduction of NDSU and New Hampshire.

A member of my Facebook group for Montana tomato breeding kindly sent me Doublerich. In Yeagers book he suggests it isn't ready for the canning industry but can be used to produce more high vitamin C varieties. I wonder if anyone in the intervening years has done just that and bred with Doublerich?