Crossing and Bridging with Solanum peruvianum

[AndrewB]

The f2 pennelli hybrids I shared originally with the group were grown with many peruvianum and habrochiates nearby. I've felt like the F3 generation leaves have some resemblance to peruvianum, but I can't tell for sure.

I have one penellii f3 grown this year with a viable fruit. I need to go harvest before it gets too cold at night. It may have been pollinated by anything grown this year.

[Nicolas]

It is more likely that the diffs come from habrochaites it there was a cross pollination with another species, but who knows.

The only paper referencing a cross between peruvianum and pennellii (tho one above) states that cross didnt work with pennelli as the female.

[AndrewB]

It is more likely that the diffs come from habrochaites it there was a cross pollination with another species, but who knows.

The only paper referencing a cross between peruvianum and pennellii (tho one above) states that cross didnt work with pennelli as the female.

Yeah hard to say. Perhaps hybrid plants might break down some of those barriers. Not sure if the pennelli hybrids are decended from domestic cytoplasm?? I think they are, in which case they probably have domestic tomato cytoplasm and may be more receptive?? One can only hope hybrid species are more promiscuous in more ways than one.

[Arjan vD]

Hi guys
so last year I grew Solanum peruvianum from Joseph and two different types of pennellii from ebay seller Lupinaster and I decided to try to cross them.
I grew a peruvianus plant seperate from the other plants and apllied pollen from the first type of pennellii and no fruits formed. Then I tried pollen from the other form of pennellii, this one was called thick leaved form, and this time fruits formed. I then pollinated a second peruvianum plant with pennellii pollen and this one formed 
fruits as well.
Unfortunately a mouse ate most of the fruits before I could harvest them but I had a couple of fruits left with mature seeds and decided to sow them right away. Germination was good and I overwintered them in a greenhouse that is kept frostfree.
The plants look mostly like peruvianum but I believe I can smell a bit of pennellii in them. I will know for certain later in the season when they flower and fruit if it is indeed a hybrid between peruvianum and pennellii.

[William Schlegel]

Cool, I tried that a few years ago but only had one penellii accession and it proved incompatible, but the literature confirms that some are!

[Nicolas]

Nice if it is really an hybrid !

I advise you to grow again the two parents as the F1 should be SI, and to try to cross it with other species too

[Arjan vD]

Nice if it is really an hybrid !

I advise you to grow again the two parents as the F1 should be SI, and to try to cross it with other species too

It might not be obvious in the picture but there are multiple plants in that pot so I should be able to make F2 unless the cross is sterile but I want to try to make some crosses with other tomatoes as well.
I am not sure if it will cross with domestic tomatoes, but I have a couple of domestic x wild crosses that I could use.

[William Schlegel]

That was my hope that Peruvianum x penellii might prove a bridge to get Peruvianum genetics into domestic.

The F1 could have some reproductive problems or it could be highly fertile and those may not show up till the F2.

[Garrett Schantz]

I got one of Lupinaster's peruvianum before.

HRseeds actually got a lot of their wilds from him, I believe.

The one pale white - semi-large, not so great peruvianum is a bit self compatible.

I got something looking like some hybrids from it. I wasn't looking for hybrids, planted those ones, took too long for the fruits to mature due to some issues.

I remember reading the self compatible peruvianums have a distinct genetic difference from other peruvianums. Also, those seem to be some of the ones that cross well with penneli.

Worth checking out. Some people really wanna maintain the SI trait and haven't touched those SC wilds.

[William Schlegel]

I like that my garden essentially has mixed SI and SC systems from working these days primarily with Solanum habrochaites and Solanum lycopersicum. It is difficult to be sure a population is SI, but I feel like mixed is a happy medium in some ways. So I see no problem with using SC wild accessions. The problem I do see is just becoming overwhelmed with trying to work on too many projects at once. Andrew Barney got some peruvianum and peruvianum hybrid accessions which he shared with me a few years ago and someone was just asking me what came of them and the answer is basically that I grew them out twice so far. One of them seemed kind of promising last summer- very domestic looking but clearly an early generation hybrid cross, and the plant produced a decent amount of seed in 2022.

[Garrett Schantz]

Yeah, I sometimes see hybrids and don't care too much about them as I can't grow them myself.

Okra project is easy. Okra is hard to get wrong even with hybrids.

Brassicas self seed and whatnot easily, I don't need to start them indoors like tomatoes. So that project is easy with hybrids searches.

Salvias, I can mostly start outdoors here too. And they self seed themselves.

I want some basil species to hybridize, not putting effort into that though.

Getting wild tomato populations and things takes more effort with selections, having to start them indoors.

I'm probably just gonna grow some things to get a lot of seed before starting projects.

Or grow things that cross easily without issues.

Cucumis project, if things cross it'll only be if the bees do it.


I cut back on a lot of projects. If things easily cross they stayed. Tomato stuff is up there in the manual crossing or heavy selection category for now.

[William Schlegel]

https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/AccDetail.aspx?AccessionNum=LA4136

LA4136 is the accession that did well for me in 2022. Looks a lot like our high percentage wilds of other species. 

[AndrewB]

Thought this might be appropriate to post again.

https://keen101.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/wide_hybridization_in_plants_tsitsin2.pdf

[Arjan vD]

Thought this might be appropriate to post again.

https://keen101.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/wide_hybridization_in_plants_tsitsin2.pdf

Some interesting information in this, thank you for sharing. They mention using a pollen mix to create a domestic x peruvianum hybrid. Would this mix be domestic and peruvianum pollen mixed together?

They also mention a tomato cyphomandra hybrid. I happen to have two seedlings of Cyphomandra corymbiflora and I sowed
hardy tamarillo hybrid (Solanum corymbiflorum x diploconos) 'Pinczow 2' a couple of days ago. Might be worth an experiment.

[Chance]

Andrew thanks for scanning that document.  It's really interesting.  Hopefully we can get the rest of it uploaded one day.