Montana Tomato Project

[William Schlegel]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qI9UsRAOjIc&t=324s

I think in the dwarf tomato project they could select dwarfs at this stage I am at. Weed out the tall ones. Micro dwarfs would show a little later.

Though that curled leaf trait could be a tell?!

[Andrew Barney]

Are these Fuzzy, Furry, and Wooly tomatoes specifically bred by Tim?

Are these the same as "peach" or "peachy" tomatoes that have hairy fruits?

[William Schlegel]

The particular strain of fuzzy I was sent was bred by Tim Peters. I think from wild genes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more advanced furry varietied started with something like Tim's fuzzy and got more palatable versions but some of them may be mutants. The proliferation is likely because it is a novel trait though. It may have some implications for defense against arthropods, wind, and sun for examples.

[Andrew Barney]

Well the "peach" types have been around for ages. I grew a few many years ago and wasn't that impressed. Might have been from wild genes, but might have been an odd mutation.

But I would be interested in tracking all these newer varieties down and comparing them. Could be interesting to keep breeding with these traits. I haven't tried many of these types nor the Tim Peter's strains. I think they have fruity flavors, but sugar could be improved and maybe size. Maybe a lot of things could be improved.

https://fedcoseeds.com/seeds/garden-peach-slicing-tomato-4044

https://www.rareseeds.com/tomato-orange-peach

[Kadence Luneman]

Nice. My seedlings are 3wks now and getting the true leaves. Dwarf project ones are shorter but there is variation. I'll have to check closer.

To relate back to the OP, I think my seedlings of "The One, isolation block" are as tall as the big hill and various indeterminate varieties I'm growing.

[Vesa Tee]

I think there is a significant body of research dating back decades ago till today on the Woolly (Wo) gene and other tomato trichome mutants and forms. The original Wo was lethal in homozygote form but there is also the Wo:m allel that is viable. Another similar gene is Lanata (Ln).

LA1663 seems to be a Wo:m+Ln double mutant:

https://solgenomics.net/locus/775/view

[William Schlegel]

One of the reasons I have avoided the fuzzy domestics is uncertainty about their origins. Plus having fuzzy wild tomatoes- I have wanted future fuzzies to get the trait from the wild parents. I am getting closer with galapagense and habrochaites crosses. Though could not say no to a Tim Peters fuzzy.

[Diane Whitehead]

It is the furry leaves I am interested in, to deter deer. 

Tom Wagner of Everett, Washington, bred a number of them:  Woolly Blue Jay,  Woolly Kate, Woolly Kate Yellow, Yamali Blue

Tatiana shows a lot of photos of the furry leaves of Woolly Blue Jay:

https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Woolly_Blue_Jay 

Brad Gates of Wild Boar Farm also bred some of them.

[William Schlegel]

I am on the edge of getting some interesting and long-awaited results from my crossing blocks. I know that the first seeding from the best plant I found in the diversity crossing block produced two crosses in thirteen. I gave all those seedlings away at the seed swap because they were too big! Though now I think I could have put them in the greenhouse where tomato seeds are already germinating- soon hopefully including the next planting from that block.

True leaves are coming out on the seedlings from the best exserted Mission Mountain Morning plant in The One crossing block. So far I don't see any crosses- but it is still early and even one would be very exciting! The One seems to have some fertility issues perhaps including poor pollen production . I do have an enormous amount of mixed seed from the block that in a pinch I could simply direct seed back into the block. That would of course include the potential for the reverse cross.

I am no longer worried about the Mission Mountain Sunrise x Dwarf Mocha's cherry crossing block as I seemingly successfully made and germinated the reverse cross. However, it will be interesting to see how many seedlings there are.

There is also Mission Mountain Sunrise x Mixed regular leaf dwarf seed from a plant next to a Dwarf Kelly Green. Also will be fun if any crosses show up.

Then there is seed from Mission Mountain Morning (MMM F2) potato leaf plants with exsertion, blue, and potato leaf from the block with LA1410 Galapagense. Though notably there was also the galapagense hybrid and the Solanum habrochaites LA2329 experiment in that garden- just further away. Though it is MMMF2 x LA1410 I am most interested in from this. I do have a hand cross between the galapagense hybrid and MMMF2 which should be fun being only 1/4 galapagense. Given the extreme size difference between LA1410 flowers and regular tomato flowers I am not entirely certain that pollinators effectively transfer the pollen between the two. So we will perhaps find out soon!

[Cathy A]

How are your MMM x Aztek lines doing? What are your goals for that cross?

[William Schlegel]

I think my ultimate goal for the MMM x Aztek cross would be a potato leaf dwarf with exsertion, bicolor flesh, and potato leaf. I have a little section of it and it is segregating nicely already for height but that is not the final plan as this is a numbers game. Therefore I plan to direct seed the very large amount of seed I saved and then thin it robustly for potato leaf dwarfs. Though there are complications. It was made with MMM F1 not F2 so it's possible potato leaf will be rare. We will find out. Definitely something though for which I'll be looking for the very favorite plant of to carry forward to 2024 and that might end up being my new crossing block mother in 2024.

However, if selection falls short then it will likely get back crossed or sibling crossed in 2024 if not before. I could see crossing a dwarf from it back to MMM F3 to get potato leaves. Or crossing it to any of my other new dwarf crosses perhaps when they hit the the F2 in 2024. I could also see potentially crossing it to Dwarf Gloria's treat as that DTP line has potato leaves and bicolor fruit with superior flavor. Partly depends on which traits it does get.

[William Schlegel]

The true leaves are rapidly emerging from my crossing blocks and- it looks like the vast majority, perhaps all of them are potato leaved. Both Mission Mountain Morning and Mission Mountain Sunrise.

So far the only exception was the awesome exserted MMM plant from the diversity crossing block.

LA1410 and The One are not abundant pollen producers!

Good thing I made so many hand crosses in 2022.

[Andrew Barney]

LA1410 and The One are not abundant pollen producers!

Are heavy pollen producers something we should be selecting for? I remember Joseph saying that when he was breeding Big Hill and he was talking about Jogodka and another tomato in his garden producing more than all the others combined because they had plumes of pollen and were attracting the bumblebees.

[William Schlegel]

It is funny because Solanum habrochaites is a tremendous pollen producer but many hybrids with it end up with reproductive problems.

Possibly, if you want a natural cross to flow in a particular direction both parents reproductive capabilities are important.

It is also interesting to me that I could plant a few hundred or a few thousand Solanum galapagense LA1410 seeds and any hybrids will stand out like a sore thumb. I don't particularly have space or time right now though! The same is true of The One! If I plant enough seeds I may find a reverse cross there. I should plant some soon if I want any. I also had one plant with better seed production. I didn't save it separately but I do know which seed packet it is in.

Though ultimately high pollen production vs low is all about reproductive fitness in particular environments with particular pollinator complexes. Also plant reproductive strategy may matter. In some cases the answer seems to be that not much is needed and in others that a great deal is needed.

[Cathy A]

Looks like I have about 5 plants from the MMM x Aztek cross you sent me, William, but none of them appear to be potato-leaved. Of course, 5 is a small sample from which to select.