Author Topic: Germinating super old seeds  (Read 1268 times)

WayneA

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #15 on: 2020-12-31, 06:04:48 AM »
Hoping to piggyback on this topic; my wife just found some dried bean seeds in a (very old) handbag whilst clearing an old cupboard. She thinks they are likely to be between 20 and 15 year's old, they're very dried and wrinkled and they may be her family's personal strain of beans from the Czech republic (the only explanation she can cook up is she must have put some in there whilst visiting in the early 2000s and forgot em.

Obviously big seeds like these are rather different to Joseph's toms; any hints or tips for giving them a go please (or is it beyond hope)?

Adrian

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #16 on: 2020-12-31, 02:26:43 PM »
You can try to sow one seed in pot at a temperature above 15C and toward a window. A grow-light can  help you.
The bean is a plant of long days, he prefer the days above 12 hours.
This seed will be sensitive at pythium, a drain soil is important for fight against this.
The last year i have try of old seeds of mungo beans. The seed has germinate but the cotyledons was stayed yellow, i have did the error to sow this seed in a room too cold (between 13 and 18C)and a potting soil too poor, it was of sand.
« Last Edit: 2021-01-01, 03:44:26 PM by Adrian »

Adrian

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #17 on: 2021-01-29, 08:14:55 AM »
Test of my seedling with cofee ground without mychorize.
Tested with phacelia and lentil.


« Last Edit: 2021-01-29, 08:17:02 AM by Adrian »

Ferdzy

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #18 on: 2021-01-29, 10:19:52 AM »
WayneA, I often soak beans and peas in a hydrogen peroxide solution before planting them. It might help and it's not likely to hurt. It is known to kill surface pathogens and speed up germination.

Plantman

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #19 on: 2021-01-29, 03:33:21 PM »
I think you should use the gibberellin, and be prepared for a seedling with very elongated internode.
When you dilute peroxide into water and it contacts carbon ( soil ) it will give up an oxygen molecule.
Not sure it does it in solution though.
If you are going to scarify your seed  by soaking, then an aquarium air pump with an airstone inside a jar will stop the soak becoming aneorobic.
The plant can produce its own immune response also, I'd consider soaking in a weak nutrient solution (400-600ec) that has kelp and fulvic acid.
The embryo will require carbs that have degraded over time.
Some people germinate in bean soak juice solution.
Almond and bean soak juice, is similar to besan flour and macca extract, they provides saponins that work as a surfacant, and will allow the seed raising mix to wet fully.

If the seed is as precious to you as you say, maybe go and browse some canna breeders' growing forum to see how they treat older seeds.
That industry has a bit of experience with germinating older cherished small seed batches.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: 2021-01-29, 09:39:49 PM by Plantman »

Ocimum

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #20 on: 2021-03-19, 03:24:17 AM »
I have got some amazing but super old Chickpea seeds, which don't germinate normally.

I am trying with hydrogen peroxide 1.5%, no idea if it will work. I have some old seed with a weak germination, I can try a few different treatments there.

What I read here are:

Surface disinfection (H2O2 or javel)
Soaking in H2O2 solution. Different sources state anything from 1 - 6 % for different crops, and different mechanisms of helping with germination.
Sugar (which concentration?)
Nitrogen (which concentration?)
Other nutrients (Plantman suggests 400-600 ec, difficult to measure without equipment)

Klaus Brugger

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #21 on: 2021-03-20, 04:30:42 AM »
I'd be careful when using H2O2 on really old seeds. After all, in seed aging, oxidative damage plays a big role, so you're already dealing with e. g. rather fragile membranes. This is why when treating old seeds with H2O2 to increase oxygen bioavailabilty, Liu et al. (2012)* used a Calcium source to protect membranes. And they weren't even working with really old seeds (max. 6 years).

Source:
*Liu, G., Porterfield, D., Li, Y., & Klassen, W. (2012). Increased Oxygen Bioavailability Improved Vigor and Germination of Aged Vegetable Seeds, HortScience horts, 47(12), 1714-1721. Retrieved Mar 20, 2021, from https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/47/12/article-p1714.xml

Adrian

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #22 on: 2021-03-20, 10:12:21 AM »
I have put of seeds of lentils and barley  in a water pot.
I have did one seed of tetsukabuto, one seed of tetsukabuto x violino rugosa and one seed of violino rugosa.
I think that the auxin rejected during the germination of the lentils and the barley will help  the germination of the seed tetsukabuto x  violino rugosa
« Last Edit: 2021-03-20, 10:18:56 AM by Adrian »

Ocimum

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #23 on: 2021-03-25, 02:40:20 PM »
Here the result of a germination test with old Vigna unguiculata seeds in hydrogen peroxyde.

Control: soaked for 24 h in H2O
Treatment: soaked for 24 h in 1.5% H2O2

Then put into petri dishes.

Results a few days later:
Control: 10/30 germinated. Seeds covered in molds
Treatment: 18/30 germinated. No molds, seeds lighter due to oxidation.

Other concentrations and/or soaking times may work even better.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-25, 02:44:10 PM by Ocimum »

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #24 on: 2021-03-25, 08:07:34 PM »
From a 2012 article that hints, but doesn't give direct instructions:

A procedure to re-invigorate seeds is currently under development for worldwide application in situations where large seed stores are maintained in poorly controlled storage environments.

The technique involves bathing the seeds in a chemical solution with an ionic balance crucial for absorption of the molecules required to re-activate or re-introduce gibberellins.

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Adrian

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #25 on: 2021-03-26, 09:45:09 AM »
Coverd the seedling pot with a wintering veil increase the germination rate and avoid that the seed not stick at the cotyledons.Thr humidity and thr temperatur under the veil is more stabile.The light is less strong and she help to lengthen the germ.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-26, 10:05:04 AM by Adrian »

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #26 on: 2021-04-12, 11:05:23 PM »
Update on the 47-49 year old tomato seeds.

I tried a number of germination strategies with the seeds. Sterile conditions. Gradual rehydration. Tea from fresh seeds. M/S-Gamborg. Natural soil. Tried about 110 seeds total, with zero germination.

Today was tomato planting day. Therefore, I planted nearly all of the (700?) remaining seeds, under the same conditions as I've started tomatoes for years:  coconut coir, with a hint of peat, pearlite, and some slow release fertilizer. In a germination chamber at 90F while LED light is on 16 hours per day, cooling to room temperature at night. The plants like the LED much better than the old fluorescent tubes.

 
« Last Edit: 2021-04-12, 11:23:50 PM by Joseph Lofthouse »

Woody Gardener

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #27 on: 2021-04-13, 11:27:32 AM »
I've got some old seeds I'd like to germinate, also some hard to germinate seeds that failed this spring. I just got a Clone-King Aeroponic machine and will try to germinate the seeds on a screen mesh just smaller than the seeds.
I'm not interested in preserving heirlooms.
The best seed bank is the living seed bank which is growing every year in people's gardens.
Joseph Lofthouse

Adrian

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #28 on: 2021-04-13, 04:05:27 PM »
Joseph with 16h of light per day do you arrive to controlated the humidity?
What is your humidity rate?

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Germinating super old seeds
« Reply #29 on: 2021-04-14, 06:53:39 PM »

Humidity is very high, because the pots are in a sealed wooden box.