Author Topic: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?  (Read 1434 times)

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #15 on: 2021-03-17, 09:02:07 AM »
I don't have as much space or as many plants compared to you guys. I mostly have a large garden probably expanding it next year.

2 Etsy WoodlandCreationz Peruvianum - unsure about fruits, seems to be purple at the very least

2 J&L Peruvianum - small green fruits

2 HR Peruvianum - white fruits

2 Joseph Peruvianum - purple / white fruits

1 Ebay Peruvianum, from somewhere in Michigan - purple / green fruits

2 Neandermato

2 Hairy Habrochaites (No germination yet)

1 Woolly Kate - Blue / yellow fruit, fuzzy fruit and leaves. (No Germination yet)

1 Blue Cream Berries - Brown-Black small seed. Also supposed to have a nice flavor, coloration. Has splitting issues.

1 Wagner Blue Green - These were cherry tomato sized last year. Still good parent for a promiscuous blue line.

1 Garden Peach - Fuzzy fruit, supposedly fruity

1 Waspincion Peach - Fuzzy fruit, supposed to taste even better than Garden Peach

1 Costoluto Florentino - I like the shape, might add it into a promiscuous that I am thinking of creating.

1 Vintage Wine - Supposedly productive, lasts lone off the vine. Also has a nice pattern on the fruit. Might add it to a promiscuous line just for those traits. Backcrossing to a promiscuous beefsteak line should work out afterwards.

1 Oscar Pearson - Testing to see how this does as a storage tomato.

1 White Beauty - I liked the taste of this tomato, might add it to a promiscuous line. If nothing else, I get more seed.

1 Aladdin's Lamp - Hoping to add this shape into a line (No germination yet)

1 Stick Tomato - Might cross this with my Reisetomate x Habrochaites in the future just for fun.

1 Muchacha! - 65 days to maturity from transplant, bred from wild stock, very high brix, highly productive.

1 Bowling Pin

1 Purple Russian

1 Green Ripper

1 Wild Gem

1 Weight In Gold - Packet says 75 days to maturity if anyone was wondering. Description mentions "odd" foliage, fuzzy russeted fruits, high brix, frost tolerance. Drawback would be that the fruits fall off the plant when fully ripe.

1 Black Bumblebee

I will probably do some more cells since most of my peppers didn't sprout. Probably too cold in the planting area.

Here is a list of some that I started in pots so far. No germination on anything yet, just planted them yesterday.

These are mostly just to test for disease resistances, whatever does well / shows interesting traits might get added to a promiscuous saladette line or to my habro x pimp in the future(since I could probably fit three generations into one year with currant/cherry types). This is mostly to get rid of older seed that I will never end up planting. Figured I might as well see if they have any use. Grew these in clumps, so I can ensure that I get at least one of each plant.

Everglades

Kamatis Na Ligaw

Orange Currant - Pointed brown-black small seed

WoodlandCreationz Pimpinellifolium

Wild Currant From Peru - Mother of the habrochaites x pimpinellifolium

Blondkopfchen - Lot of pollen, bees love it.

Banana Currant - Technically not a true currant, fun shape though

White Currant

Golden Currant Tomato

Velvet Red Tomato - Not a currant, but the leaves and fuzz on the leaves are interesting

Copper Currant - Pretty early, fun parentage

These were just spread around in different sections of a nursery tree pot.

Neandermato

WoodlandCreationz Habrochaites

HR Habrochaites 

J&L Habrochaites

These were both grown in separate pots.

Habrochaites x Wild Currant From Peru F2

Habrochaites x Reisetomate F2

Also growing Joseph's promiscuous lines in pots, starting some in cells pretty soon as well. The ones grown in pots are mostly for controlled hybridization attempts.

Most of this is breeding material. One plant should be enough considering a lot of them will be thrown into promiscuous lines, most domestics self pollinate anyway(also did about three seeds in each cell). I will isolate the offspring of those ones just long enough to make them promiscuous. Afterwards they get tossed in with beefsteak non elite types.

I will do more wild growouts next year as well.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-17, 09:03:44 AM by Garrett Schantz »

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #16 on: 2021-03-17, 09:48:00 AM »
Unsure of what type of habrochites that I planted last year, pretty sure it was Woodland. Looks different from the images of LA1777 that I have seen, so probably not that accession. Unless this is a variation of some sort.

The type I grew had larger flowers than currant tomatoes do - nothing like what Joseph has though. It also had a ton of purple stems - the F1 had purple stems as well, so it doesn't appear to be a deficiency. I have seen tomatoes that have a bit of purpleling on new growth, but that usually goes away. Leaves also seem glossier - can probably see the camera glare in the last image.

Hoping someone here knows what accession it is. I should have fruits posted somewhere else on here.

The pimpinellifolium itself was already interesting. VERY small leaves. Unsure if I really pointed out there how small they are/were. Last images have a sort of scale. Mature leaves of the habrochaites and pimpinellifolium, along with some new growth. There is also a habrochaites leaf in the background of the third image.

I remember some people on here wanting a really small leaved tomato plant. I should be able to find some of those in my F2 grow out - which will be in the other thread.

The first image is later in the season when the garden was pretty much finished for the year, I stopped removing weeds towards that point.

Figured I might as well add the two parent lines here as a reference for anyone looking at the offspring of these two.

Some of these I posted on Permies, but not on here. So some people may not have seen them yet.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-17, 09:51:54 AM by Garrett Schantz »

William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #17 on: 2021-03-18, 11:54:47 AM »
Pulling old tags, these are from the region that was mostly good bicolors. XA1/A2 C31 3 species BHXW must be the main parent of the good bicolors I pulled from the 2020 promiscuous tomatoes.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #18 on: 2021-03-21, 11:26:52 AM »
Seeding one cell at a time with about 4 or 5 seeds per cell.

G2 Promiscuous XL 2020 earliest red beefsteak, I gave this one a good pinch of seed in case it really is promiscuous
Brad
Earl's strain Jagodka
Ot'Jagodka
42 Days
Krainiy Sever- interesting upright growth habit
Lucid Gem
Sweet Cherriette
Chariot Hybrid F3
Iron Lady F1 2 seeds
Lizzano F1 2 seeds
Wild Child
Dwarf Hirsutum Cross
Weight in Gold
Unk exserted PL - mother of Mission Mountain Sunrise
Blue Chocolate
Forest Fire
PL White Shah
Green Vernissage
2020 orange blue large
Yellow tasty indigo kumquat F3
Sungold F3
Michael Pollan
Pineapple
Green Zebra
Blue Gold - suspected father of Mission Mountain Sunrise
Great Big Blue Red Beefsteak F2 2019
Fake Galapagense
2019 F2 Blue Bicolor Big With Spots Beautiful - sister line

I want to grow the envelope I saved of blue blushed payette off types. Probably an F1. Looking for it. Also considering starting more promiscuous project bicolors.

Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #19 on: 2021-03-21, 01:11:09 PM »
Ok I just additionally planted:

Chariot round yellow
F2 Blue Skin speckles and red flesh "Dark Galaxy" father?
Payette
Blue Ambrosia
Wild Zebra- new packet from Joseph.
Hamsonita
Payette X F1? Slight blue smudge -this I seeded all of into 12 cells I am hoping seedlings will show typical dwarf segregation. If so I will keep the dwarves. Looking for a high anthocyanin dwarf. Then if I get a dwarf I hope to cross it with a blue bicolor.

I couldn't find my payette seeds anywhere. Went back out to the garage looking. Found a few fun things but no payette. Walked out to last year's payette field found a mummified tomato. Stuck it in my pocket took it home and planted it. Then I found the payette and payette cross seeds in a bucket!

Filled the last 16 cells with more promiscuous project bicolors from a different packet which probably means additional mothers.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-21, 02:12:46 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #20 on: 2021-03-21, 06:14:53 PM »
I ordered some more tomato seeds since I have some more free space.

Eva Purple Ball: "Does well in humid climates. Needs full sun and warm nights to ripen fully, trellis. Introduced SESE in 1994. Easy to harvest and easy to peel. Excellent resistance to diseases, including some resistance to Late Blight." There is a Lake / Creek around 2 miles from where I live. Its referred to as both a lake and a creek. Also counts as a tributary, it flows into the Allegheny eventually, which then forks into the Ohio River / Monongahela River. Anyways its not a huge lake, but its big enough to have a dam. Gets quite foggy where I live, probably due to to living so close to a decent sized body of water - which also equals humidity, even worse when it rains. Wanting to see if this thrives any better than regular tomatoes - also apparently resistant to some blight.

Pruden's Purple: An old favorite, beautiful pink-red, garden standout, 8 oz. to 1 lb. fruits on productive plants, heavy early producer. Grows well in many climates. Blemish free, split resistant, great flavor, possibly superior to Brandywine. Good resistance to the US-23 genotype of Late Blight.  Moderate resistance to US-24 and US-17. Some suppression of foliar symptoms, not fruit, with US-8 and US-11. Resistance to US-22, US-23 and US-24 This one just seems like it has a lot of resistances to different strains of blight. Also early, heavy producing.

Purple Smudge: Looks interesting, might try a hybrid between this and other purple fruited types.

Alberto Shatters: Exerted pimpinellifolium

Matt's Wild Cherry: More disease resistances.

I will plant these when they arrive in the mail. If any of these perform exceptionally well, I will toss them into an exerted group. I probably won't get huge yields from these due to starting a bit late, but they should still produce enough for me to taste them, notice any resistances.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #21 on: 2021-03-24, 02:31:22 PM »
Seeds came in today. Did one cell each of the tomatoes that I mentioned before. Also did single cells of a bunch of other seeds that I have laying around.

Cherokee Purple - Someone gave me a packet of this before as a gift. Didn't plant it before, figured I might as well now. Has some Fusarium Wilt and Septoria resistances, most tomatoes already have a good bit of those resistances though. Supposed to taste good - I probably won't like it though.

Stupicke Polni Rane - This is already well known throughout the forum, but it is an early compact tomato variety. Supposed to have decent blight resistance as well.

Chariot tomato - Yellow Pear x Brad from Experimental Farm Network / Joseph. This is probably going into my exerted cherry / currant project. Others are already selecting out cherry tomatoes from the population. Should be early.

Neon Peach - Seems similar to Waspincion Peach and Garden Peach. J&L Gardens: The fuzzy, apricot orange fruit has a distinctive fruity flavor and production can be phenomenal. 70 days to maturity from transplant.

Ananas Noir - Images I have seen of these look quite nice on the inside - a bicolor tomato. Smoky / Citrus flavor is mentioned on Bakercreek. Large fruit / Very heavy yields. Sounds nice.

Saraev M-22 - Compact, early, cold tolerant, productive, sweet.

Big Hill - Promiscuous, supposed to taste nice. Bold floral display sounds great.

Xandu Green Goddess - Blue/Green beefsteak type tomato. Also has a similar striping to Green Zebra / Green Vernissage.

Q-Series

Wildling


Some of the tomatoes like Purple Smudge, Alberto Shatters, Saraev M-22, etc will also be used as a fall cold tolerance test.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #22 on: 2021-03-28, 05:15:43 PM »
Very last seed order of the year...

I ordered a bunch of cool looking beans from The Seed Stead. Tested germination, seemed good.

Figured I would look around to see  if they had anything of interest.

Bought Double Rich and Burnley Bounty - some other things.

Double Rich was bred using Solanum Peruvianum and Michigan State Forcing in 1953 by Dr. Albert F. Yeager.

Yeager is known for breeding crops that would do well in North Dakota - able to cope with early frosts, periodic droughts, harsh winters. Unsure of how how early Double Rich is or of how cold tolerant it is, the breeder's goals would make me think that it could be cold tolerant. It has twice the amount of vitamin C of standard tomatoes (this is from 1953, so standard tomatoes might have more vitamin C now). Unusually firm fruit with high resistance to cracking and long keeping after ripe Good resistance to blight and wilt,  65 - 75 days

Burnley Bounty was bred using Grosse Lisse and Solanum Peruvianum. A late fruiting variety that is quite cold tolerant and can be planted late in the season. Burnley Bounty is from Australia, I probably wouldn't plant it too late in most of the U.S.


I mostly ordered because I saw Burnley Bounty was available there. I haven't found it sold anywhere else in the U.S.

I don't think that these will cross easily with Peruvianum - assuming they were backcrossed a few times. But they  probably have traits that aren't available yet in the promiscuous populations.

Both will be used for Fall cold tolerance trials. I might cross the two together just for the fun of it.

The Seed Stead has a bunch of rare / odd things. The parent company is based in Africa - Livingseeds.

The tests are also to ensure that these are the correct varieties.








« Last Edit: 2021-03-28, 06:20:03 PM by Garrett Schantz »

William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #23 on: 2021-03-28, 06:41:58 PM »
https://digital.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/collection/ui_ep/id/19060

Last year I grew Payette for that same reason it has peruvianum and habrochaites in its breeding. That and as a seed grow out for Snake River Seeds. Course later I found the actual pedigree and boy did they ever dilute the peruvianum and habrochaites content! 

Then below is a repost of what I wrote about an interesting article what it boils down to is that namely when we grab any modern variety it's liable to have some fancy introgressions which are not insubstantial. In fact the authors concluded that tomatoes aren't so inbred anymore. That all those introgression traits add up and sometimes come with substantial chunks of genetics.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2019.01606/full

Was just looking at this article. It's about how introgressions from peruvianum, chilense, habrochaites, and pennellii have helped with the diversity problem in tomato.

Some of the introgressions are quite large according to the article. A common one from Peruvianum is ToMV resistance to tobacco mosaic virus which comprises about 70% of chromosome 9. So when we cross in modern disease resistant varieties we get some decent wild chunks. Perhaps things like the variety Iron Lady F1, that Carol mentioned in her call to action book section on late blight, actually have some decent chunks of wild including peruvianum. Perhaps more than older varieties like the Payette I mentioned. Intriguing if so. If I were starting over with new domestic lines that might be informative. No plans at current though.

Though this would be my scheme if so. I would look for modern hybrid varieties with the largest lists of resistances possible because each of these probably corresponds to an introgression chunk. Then I would pollinate those with about ten+ elites from the promiscuous project. In the promiscuous F2 there would probably be some reproductive difficulties, but then you would probably end up with a promiscuous line with a lot of disease resistances and a lot of corresponding introgressions from all commonly used species.

Joseph in some of his older articles about his first attempts at tomato land races mentioned the genetic value of modern varieties. This article would seem to support that strongly.

I suspect also that this article means that almost any modern variety probably has more introgressions in comparison to heirlooms than we might think. Like all the blue skinned have the blue introgressions. That's a lot of varieties and super common in my garden. So since we haven't been extremely focused on working with older heirlooms only the domestic plants we started with probably already came with some introgressions.

https://www.highmowingseeds.com/organic-non-gmo-iron-lady-f1-tomato.html

Thinking about that I did plant another two seeds from my original packet of Iron Lady F1. Both have already germinated. The above link to high mowing lists I think seven resistances (I'm counting two for fusarium one and two and
two or late blight cause it's got PH2 and PH3). Those probably correspond to eight introgressions. Probably from multiple wild species. So I just Googled my way through the list and four of the introgressions are from pimpinillifolium a fifth early blight could be from pimpinillifolium or peruvianum or habrochaites. Septoria and verticillium I came up empty or from domestic tomato. So basically alot of pimpinillifolium introgression. Which might explain alot given some recent pimpinillifolium discussion.

Blue skin tomatoes have "atv" from cheesemanii and "Aft" from chilense.

« Last Edit: 2021-03-28, 07:30:54 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #24 on: 2021-03-28, 09:03:04 PM »
Pruden's Purple, Wapsipinicon Peach, Galahad and Iron Lady - among other disease resistant varieties probably have chunks of wild genes mixed in, as you said. Dehybridization of the F1 types can be annoying because traits are commonly lost.

Mixing these with promiscuous populations might work well.

I'm not doing Galahad or Iron Lady until next year though.

Newer varieties will eventually become inbred or their resistances won't matter anymore.

 A lot of diseases don't effect plants in their native ranges. Stabilizing traits other than just plain disease resistances could be quite helpful in disease prevention. Which is also why I really like the promiscuous project.

Most modern varieties just get crossed with a wild species a handful of times in order to obtain disease resistances, afterwards they get backcrossed quite a bit. Pretty much wipes out anything else that isn't standard or important.

The cold tolerance from peruvianum usually isn't focused on, so it gets weeded out. A lot of heirloom cold tolerant varieties have pimpinellifolium mixed in - same with very early varieties.

Looking forward to trialing a bunch of different things this year - a lot of them will probably become new varieties or contribute to promiscuous groups.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #25 on: 2021-04-04, 04:28:55 PM »
Planted Burnley Bounty and Double Rich two days ago. Also recieved bonus seeds for a variety called "Greek Domato". Planted those as well, might as well see how it performs.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #26 on: 2021-04-12, 11:50:05 PM »
I planted more tomatoes. Not an ideal cell size, but they won't be in it for long.

One cell for each of the following:

Chariot
Alberto Shatters
Zlatava
Jan's
Weight In Gold
Muchacha!
Copper Currant
Wild Gem
Thai Pink Egg
Egg From Phucket
Green Gage
Hartman's Gooseberry
Sungella
Sunray
Blondkopfchen
Saraev M-22

I did 4 cells each for these ones:

Big Hill
Q Series
Wildling
BH Series
Restoration Seeds Peruvianum
J&L Peruvianum
Joseph's Peruvianum
Woodland Peruvianum



William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #27 on: 2021-05-08, 10:34:52 PM »
Been thinking about what crosses I want to get made this year. I thought I started a thread about that but cant find it if so. I figure if I keep it in the greenhouse I'll have a better chance of getting it done. So I've been putting tomatoes in bigger pots. Hmm might be some opposition building. Have twelve big pots mostly upwards of five gallons so far.

6 pots for LA 2329
1 pot for sweet cherriette
1 pot for Iron Lady F1
1 pot for three plants my blue bicolor, striped exserted, and big hill
1 pot for Payette
1 pot for Solanum galapagense
1 pot for Solanum arcanum

I had a few others I wanted too but if I got an intentional cross done with each of these things it would be a pretty good year. Perhaps the rest will go to the slushy field for seed increase. I have exserteds I can plant in between other things or just by themselves but mixed together. My plan for my parents place is perhaps just six or so exserted stigma sorts all of them different. Blue chile like offspring of tressette, exserted tiger, exserted pimp x tressette, big hill, blue ambrosia, exserted orange. There are others liable to be exserted in part but perhaps more likely to be segregating for the trait(s) involved.

Planted new seeds of a new habrochaites, three micro dwarfs, and Krainy Sever the other day.
« Last Edit: 2021-05-08, 11:22:02 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #28 on: 2021-06-02, 11:05:56 PM »

Looks like I planted:

36 R18 yellow, iffy flavor, highly promiscuous- some living

48 promiscuous S35/S36/S37 best flavor 2020- some living

32 promiscuous project bicolors from 2020 unevaluated for promiscuity in 2020. This is the group I plan to direct seed as well but these 32 will get spaced out. - some living more than 32 because I replanted.

72 cells of LA2329 though more than 100 seeds from the original packet and the 2020 growout. These I plan to have at the house. - changed my mind, out on the garden land but densely planted with promiscuous bicolors.


32 Mission Mountain Sunrise a pretty short season bl
ue bicolor descended most probably from Blue Gold and a unknown Lofthouse potato leaf. Regular leaved. - regular leaves went to the slushy garden, some resprouted. Three plantings of potato leaved segregates.

12 of the chile shaped blue descendents of Golden Tressette
- a few resprouts.

32 exserted orange for seed production. Froze except one but most resprouting.

12 of the exserted pimpinillifolium X Golden Tressette? A couple left. One resprout one in a pot. Likelihood of getting a yellow low.

6 Lofthouse habrochaites cytoplasm plants which produced no elites in 2020. These will be with the other habrochaites.
No resprout yet.


6 exserted tiger- just for interplanting with other breeding material.
Resprouts also direct seeded some

6 Big Hill
Late planted and resprouts

6 Coyote- resprouts

6 Amethyst Cream- resprouts

6 Bosque Bronze- sampler packet from J&L last year I didn't manage to plant. - big but frost might have killed, not resprouting.

1 clump LA1404 S. cheesemanii second generation
-survived barely growing again.

1 clump LA 1410 S. galapagense second generation
- planted late, looks great

1 clump 2020 S. arcanum
Planted late

1 clump 2020 S. peruvianum Lofthouse x Barney
Frost killed?



I didn't have any of the fake galapagos
- frost killed?

or sweet cherriette
Planted late one clump.

Lizzano descendants.
A few sprouted in greenhouse.

Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: What Tomato Lines to growout and isolate in 2021?
« Reply #29 on: 2021-06-02, 11:13:41 PM »

G2 Promiscuous XL 2020 earliest red beefsteak, I gave this one a good pinch of seed in case it really is promiscuous
- three survivors

Brad- resprouting

Earl's strain Jagodka- resprouting

Ot'Jagodka- resprouting

42 Days- none?

Krainiy Sever- interesting upright growth habit- in pots still

Lucid Gem- frost killed?

Sweet Cherriette-one clump planted late

Chariot Hybrid F3 resprouting

Iron Lady F1 2 seeds planted late

Lizzano F1 2 seeds- dud

Wild Child- frost killed?.

Dwarf Hirsutum Cross killed?
Weight in Gold frost killed
Unk exserted PL - mother of Mission Mountain Sunrise-resprouting
Blue Chocolate- resprouting
Forest Fire- resprouting
PL White Shah killed?
Green Vernissage killed?
2020 orange blue large killed?
Yellow tasty indigo kumquat F3 killed by frost?
Sungold F3 survived frost, 1 of 5 top growth intact
Michael Pollan frost killed?
Pineapple frost killed?
Green Zebra resprouting
Blue Gold - suspected father of Mission Mountain Sunrise frost killed
Great Big Blue Red Beefsteak F2 2019 survived frost
Fake Galapagense killed by frost
2019 F2 Blue Bicolor Big With Spots Beautiful - sister line, resprouting

I want to grow the envelope I saved of blue blushed payette off types. Probably an F1. - a few resprouts.
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Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days