Author Topic: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes  (Read 1193 times)

Steph S

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #15 on: 2021-04-25, 12:14:23 PM »
Sounds like a good project, alright.

I did some breeding with Kimberley providing the maternal DNA.  Lots of side crosses along the way, some really early larger fruit and some really tasty ones too.  Lots of cold tolerance.
One thing I couldn't seem to overcome though was disease and pest susceptibility in these lines. 
That is why they got sidelined for now, besides my increasing focus on determinate plants. 
The Beaverlodge Plum is precocious and also determinate.  It set a load of fruit in the cold and first ripe was ten days earlier than Stupice that year (Kimberley was 20 days earlier).  But the fruit were not tasty at all, very bland.  That might have been due to the cold stress they were under.  It's not unusual for tomatoes to produce bland or mealy or otherwise nasty fruit very early in the season, but it's something I wanted to avoid so I didn't do any breeding with BP.  It might be good for a warmer climate though.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #16 on: 2021-04-25, 12:16:51 PM »
Which diseases, Steph?
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Steph S

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #17 on: 2021-04-25, 12:37:11 PM »
In the greenhouse, just about every plant with Kimberley as matriarch proved to be a magnet for aphids.   It doesn't take long for the plant to be looking ratty leaved when they're at work.   
At least some of the plants seemed to outgrow the pest-magnet condition and weren't too bad for the season overall.  But it was sad to see the same thing happening every spring when they were just getting going in the greenhouse.  :P
Septoria and Early Blight were also a problem with some of the lines when exposed to outdoor conditions.   Rapid defoliation, couldn't keep up.  They produced a lot of fruit anyway, but were pretty unsightly.

Septoria is pretty rare here.  Early Blight and Botrytis grey mold are very common/endemic and are the big disease issues in cold and wet weather both in greenhouse and out.
I haven't seen Late Blight here at all.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #18 on: 2021-04-25, 12:57:44 PM »
oh, that's good.  Late blight is the only disease I get.  I really like Kimberley but have not crossed it yet.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Steph S

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #19 on: 2021-04-25, 01:16:26 PM »
Yep Kimberley is a tasty red, besides the earliness and precocious flowering traits.  Good choice I thought. 
One thing I've noticed in a couple of other PL's as well, the greenhouse environment causes them to produce very tender leaves.
So the appeal to aphids might not be an issue where you are growing, at all.

William S.

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #20 on: 2021-04-25, 05:00:00 PM »
I wonder if I have any seed for Kimberly in my seed stash. That story about the aphid problems make me want to cross it to LA2329 habrochaites or S. Galapagense.

Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Steph S

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #21 on: 2021-04-26, 06:24:08 AM »
Pretty sure I have seeds in my stash, but they would be quite old as I haven't grown it for a while.  If you need them I'll look for some.
The problems I had, seemed to be in Kimberley's maternal DNA line.  So using it as a pollen donor to something with pest resistance would be worth a try.
OTOH the precocious flowering and other earliness is easier to recover when coming from the maternal parent.
I did not have the space to grow a lot of plants for that kind of trait recovery, and it was disappointing to see the extra early trait slipping away, in side crosses where the precocious lines were pollen donors to a later parent.

William S.

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #22 on: 2021-04-26, 07:00:16 AM »
I think I have enough tomatoes growing this year already! Also not sure if my thought actually makes sense. Wild species crosses are a way to solve problems but come with problems of their own. If it was just the one variety with aphids then it doesn't make sense to go wide to solve it. Might make sense to use it as a pollen parent instead as you suggest.

 The more traits we want together in a single variety the harder it is to retrieve all of them from a cross. The lines I've started tend to be missing at least one trait I wanted. So if we needed three different earliness associated traits it wold probably require back crossing.

Dwarfism is pretty obvious in seedlings. Precocious flowering sounds observable.

Some of the earliest varieties in my collection have really tall seedlings. 42 Days is tall, Jagodka is tall, Sweet Cherriette is tall, Forest Fire is tall. Coyote is tall. Only Krainiy Sever is short amongst the earliest.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-26, 07:13:52 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Steph S

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #23 on: 2021-04-26, 08:35:57 AM »
Precocious flowering is easy to select even before plantout.  I usually have my seedlings in beer cups for 6-8 weeks and that is the point where they put their first buds on and ready to open their first flowers.  The precocious are two weeks earlier to flower, so really they should be started later or planted earlier, before they start to set.  That is a bit of a problem here, when trying to plant as early as possible - you can only go so early.  I could get first fruit earlier from precocious plants but their main crop was coming in at the same time as the others, because it was just too cold.
So it is easy to select but as you pointed out, it's not the only trait you're looking for.  You could easily discard important things at that stage.  And backcrossing is indeed necessary if we are selecting for multiple traits.
One thing I've noticed over the years is that seedlings continue to vary in earliness traits by a few days from one another, and the same is also seen in OP's for whatever reason, you may get an extra early seedling one year, or it may be some micro-environmental factors or seed characteristics that cause them to vary in rate of development, IDK.
So I have gotten less obsessed with "the earliest" over time, and look instead for "early enough".  I always pick "the earliest" to get primo spots in the greenhouse, and the 'extras' get shuffled outdoors if possible or end up in a crowded situation.  Many times though, at the end of the day it was one of the 'extras' that had the combination of traits I was looking for.  Some even turned out to ripen earlier....
Precocious flowering might be a great trait for something like your direct seeded tomatoes.  This is something that I don't think would be feasible here, even if I direct seeded in greenhouse... our season is just too cold and short.  I can't expect to skip the seedling production step.  If you can do that in your climate, then a precocious flowering trait may be just the thing.

William S.

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #24 on: 2021-04-26, 02:52:18 PM »
Direct seeding is great for selecting for early enough. In fact I suspect early enough plants out compete earliest plants with direct seeding. I tried adding sweet cherriette as a control to a seed mix one year. I think it mostly got out competed. Though if seeding mostly short plants like lizzano segregates or sweet cherriette a few tall ones won't out compete everything. Also chasing earliest is hard when so many of them are red and you want yellow.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-26, 03:30:46 PM by William S. »
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Yaz

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #25 on: 2021-05-03, 06:37:29 PM »
I have been growing 'Sub arctic maxi' for the last few years. It was part of a series of tomatoes developed in the 70s in Beaverlodge Research station for Canadian gardeners. It claims 48 days (other sources say 55). I can confirm I get red tomatoes 2/3 the size of my fist within days to a week of my first cherry tomatoes even in cooler weather. Not abundantly productive in my poor soil, but tasty and very crack resistant. Arguably my favourite slicer. When given better soil, they seem to produce well.  I often have tomatoes on them before my main season tomatoes have even set fruilt. Determinate and very compact plants. At one point I even managed to find the research paper listing what had been crossed to create it!

Anyway, the subarctic series might be interesting to anyone working on early season tomatos unwilling to wait for CRISPR tomatoes to become public domain :)

William S.

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Re: Tomato CRISPR for Urban tomatoes
« Reply #26 on: 2021-05-03, 09:14:02 PM »
That is interesting.

Two in my collection include Sweet Cherriette at 35 DTM from transplant. (True if seedlings are 8 weeks old at translant and grown very well). As well as 42 Days a 42 DTM variety.

In my prior years rankings for top ten in earliness
Sweet Cherriette
Jagodka (Earl's Strain)
Ot Jagodka (Joseph's Strain)
Sungold in the F3
Anmore Dewdrop and Tumbler
Krainy Sever
42 Days
Coyote
Forest Fire
Brad
Some of my segregating blue bicolor
Terrior Cheesemanii

This list leaves me most interested in crossing Krainy Sever and Sweet Cherriette and then further crossing with something yellow from my list. So I will try to keep my one plant of Krainy Sever back in the Greenhouse and my clump of Sweet Cherriette and finally make some crosses with it. Which would probably mean smaller fruit size, but I am ok with that because I have plenty of early enough varieties with larger fruit size. I think in this regard I'm most curious about earliest possible.

I ordered a micro or two- think I mentioned. I suspect from these articles that crossing dwarfs and micro dwarfs with ultra earlies is a good strategy.
« Last Edit: 2021-05-03, 09:52:22 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days