Author Topic: A diverse patch of shallots  (Read 5448 times)

Steph S

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: 14
    • 47.5N 52.8W Newfoundland AgCan zone 5a/USDA zone 4 Koppen Dfb
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 4
Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #75 on: 2021-01-24, 01:06:23 PM »
Here are a couple of items I found interesting, which use 'ascalonicum' in reference to shallot.

https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/20053101895
Characterization of interspecific hybrids between Allium ascalonicum L. and A. cepa L.
This work from S Korea refers to A ascalonicum as shallot, and the ratio of viable seeds obtained from 'interspecific' cross and backcross seems to indicate that they are different species or divergent to a greater degree than, for example, shallots of Croatia (I think you linked up that paper in an earlier post).

https://uses.plantnet-project.org/en/Allium_cepa_Aggregatum_(PROSEA)
This one describes the Cepa-shallot tribe using var ascalonicum for shallot and var aggregatum for potato onion.  Very interesting description of potato onion as well, differing in forming bulbs in the second year if I read correctly. 
The size of seed given for shallots here is way bigger than my seeds though.   ::)

By all accounts the shallots of Europe are quite different from those of the tropics.

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
  • Karma: 42
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #76 on: 2021-01-24, 02:16:18 PM »
https://cals.arizona.edu/fps/sites/cals.arizona.edu.fps/files/cotw/Shallot.pdf

Quote
The term shallot is used to describe two different Allium species of plant. The French grey chal- lot or griselle, which has been considered to be the “true shallot” by many, is a species that grows wild from Central to Southwest Asia.

Steph S

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
  • Karma: 14
    • 47.5N 52.8W Newfoundland AgCan zone 5a/USDA zone 4 Koppen Dfb
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 4
Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #77 on: 2021-01-26, 12:16:10 PM »
Interesting, Andrew.  The author says that they were changed from A ascalonicum to A cepa to "fit them in with the onion family".  This doesn't make sense to me.  Revisions to nomenclature generally come about when something new is learned about the genetics and corrects the placement that was previously based on phenotypic characteristics alone.
So without knowing the 'facts' I would strongly expect that the revision to A cepa var aggregatum is due to the absence of species barriers to crossing between the two.  That also fits the more recent emergence of hybrid shallots from seed which are now on the market.
The shallots of Europe seem to have been strongly selected against flowering, or may have come from non-flowering types in the first place.  Whereas the literature on shallots of Ethiopia for example refers to both flowering and non-flowering types as well as other diverse characteristics. 
Still there may be more than one species being called "shallot" indeed it's pretty clear there are....

So with regards to this particular allium, and especially its usefulness for breeding, the question is, will it cross with an onion or not.
The ideal test would be to get an F1 hybrid onion with male sterility and stick it in the shallot patch for the bees to work.  If they are A cepa, then the F1 would produce seeds, otherwise it would not.
My problem is, where could I get an F1 onion to plant and make bolt so I could test this out this summer.
Onions here are never sold by variety name, it's 'white' 'yellow' or 'red' maybe even 'spanish' but no name is the rule. 
I have yellow onions of commerce chilled in the porch right now which I could likely get to bolt, but no idea if they are F1 or OP's.
The only provider of sets in my area that goes beyond "red" or "yellow" is selling OP sets - Red Karmen and Sturon.
I did read advice not to plant Karmen sets too early, to avoid bolting.  So maybe bolting can be induced by exposing sets to cold.  That won't help with my test though unless I can find an F1 set.
I've been reorganizing all my seeds and found two packets of F1 onion seeds from swaps - Red Devil F1 and Ruby Ring F1.  No year on those, but I may as well see if I can get any germination.   I really don't know if there's any chance of getting a plant to bolt when grown from seed - what do more experienced onion growers think?  I have a really cold greenhouse to torment seedlings in, if that would help.  ???