Author Topic: SOLVED: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)  (Read 731 times)

Andrew Barney

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Hi all! I've just discovered a wild species of Raspberry native to my area called Rubus deliciosus. I only had 1 berry fruit when I tracked down a specimen at a local-ish nursery and have gone crazy for wild raspberry species since! It really was THAT good! It was the best raspberry I've ever eaten in my life.

So, hence begins my quest to use it as the basis for a long term breeding project to improve it, yet retain it's flavor,  color, and drought tolerant properties that imbune it to doing well in my western region / arid climate.

In fact I went on a wild germplasm gathering trip today in Fort Collins and failed to locate any,  but located a wild and very tasty gooseberry by accident instead. So I collected a few samples.

Anyway,  I need some help from those who live in Arizona or New Mexico. From past projects I have learned how wide genetic diversity can be key to successful breeding projects.  Therefore I am gathering other wild raspberry species,  with a particular emphasis on those closely related to Rubus deliciosus.

Up till now I have not been able to find anyone willing to ship me a sample of Rubus neomexicanus the New Mexico Raspberry to Colorado. It may even be a sub species of Rubus deliciosus.

I am also hoping to get a plant or sees of Rubus bartonianus from Idaho. I suspect it is closely related.

A similar and nonspecific species from south America is called Rubus trilobus, and while I don't believe I can find a source for it there is a hybrid of it with R. Deliciosus sold in Washington and highly popular in the UK. I have already purchased one of these.

I have gotten a specimen of Rubus odoratus from Zach Elfers and I am working on rooting a cutting of R. deliciosus in trade. Thank you!

I am still waiting on Rubus spectabilis from Alaska.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-29, 09:19:52 PM by Andrew Barney »

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #1 on: 2019-08-02, 08:20:59 PM »
My half acre has a lot of native fruits on it, including four Rubus:

Salmonberry.   R spectabilis
Blackcap  R leucodermis
Thimbleberry. R parviflorus
Trailing blackberry  R ursinus

Ursinus has the smallest berries, but the best flavour.

Plus, of course, the introduced Himalayan blackberry - R discolor
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Andrew Barney

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #2 on: 2019-08-02, 09:09:36 PM »
Well,  my salmon berry source may have fell through. So, I might be interested in Rubus spectabilis and perhaps Rubus parviflorus thimbleberry.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #3 on: 2019-08-02, 09:48:43 PM »
Perhaps you'd like pollen.  Then you could get started on your hybridizing immediately.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #4 on: 2021-03-29, 06:27:30 PM »
Unsure of how far you are on the project, I should be able to some Black Raspeberry (R. occidentalis) seeds for you at the end of the year - grows wild around my area.

It isn't a trailing Raspberry - unsure if it would hybridize with deliciosus easily, I like it though. Sort of seedy, I like the look of the canes - whiteish - red.

Being that I have a wild population, seed might work out pretty well for diversity.

There is another bramble that has recently popped up here as well. Large green canes - could have hybridized with occidentalis depending on what it is.

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #5 on: 2021-03-29, 07:03:57 PM »
You also might want to try Mysore Raspberry (Rubus niveus) that's probably another heat lover. Tade winds seeds has it (and salmon berry). They also have Rubus glaucus (Andean Raspberry) and Rubus probus from Australia (though that is currently out of stock)

Andrew Barney

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #6 on: 2021-03-29, 09:15:53 PM »
Thanks for the ideas guys. My original thread is probably the one you should be replying to, and is found here:

http://opensourceplantbreeding.org/forum/index.php?topic=358.msg4306#msg4306

But to update you on where I am with this project:

1. I have 2 plants of Rubus deliciosus, with one on my parents property (probably from the same clone source).
2. I have 1 plant of Rubus 'Benenden' at my parents property, the small one i had here died last winter. It is a hybrid of Rubus deliciosus and it's con-specific sister species Rubus trilobus of southern Mexico. Hopefully this one survived the winter.
3. I have one successful pre-rooted cutting of Rubus neomexicanus obtained from the National Clonal Germplasm Repository: Corvallis, OR. This one is growing well inside in cactus soil and with my capacitive soil sensors programmed to alert me when the soil reaches wilting point.
4. I have plans to get a plant of Rubus parviflorus and Rubus odoratus.
5. My salmon berry cuttings from Alaska appear to have died (too dry here). Rubus spectibilis
6.I planted manually scarified seeds last summer of Rubus bartonianus but none germinated. Maybe this spring?? Although Rubus bartonianus might have weird convoluted genetics and may not be diploid.
7. I have a nice domestic raspberry planted from seed from Driscolls advanced raspberry breeding. These were the best tasting domestic raspberries i've tasted. I'm calling this plant 'Oxnard' based on when these raspberries were purchased in the fall. These were US based raspberries and tasted better than the ones from Mexico. https://www.driscolls.com/about/our-practices/where-we-grow
8. I do have a plant of 'Niwot' black raspberry which is Rubus occidentalis. It is also the first primocane bearing black raspberry but only one set of berries actually taste good i think. It is also very thorny. Thorns are definitely a downside. None of the native raspberries in the Anoplobatus clade have thorns. In addition i did purchase these seeds for a golden black raspberry. https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/products/margs-golden-black-raspberry
9. I do have a purple raspberry red-black hybrid, but it has not produced berries yet and i do not know how good they taste.

When it comes to raspberries outside of the Anoplobatus clade I think i will need to be fairly picky. I no longer will try salmon berry as my climate is too dry. I'm not sure if i want to use black raspberry or not, though probably long term i will try. And if i use the standard Rubus idaeus, i think i will stick to using the most modern cultivars and genetics (which may also be thornless).

Also when it comes to black raspberries I'm actually more interested in using Rubus leucodermis as it is the species the "Blue Raspberry" candy flavor is based on. Also it has never been used in modern black raspberry breeding and was falsely listed as used in a variety a long time ago that is no longer avaialble and was proven false with DNA testing. Though maybe using purple raspberry red-black hybrids might be a better place to start with black raspberry breeding.

The more hard to find species in the Anoplobatus clade are Rubus trilobus, Rubus bartonianus, and maybe Rubus trifidus. There have been successful hybrids between Rubus parviflorus and Rubus odoratus before.

The takeaway for the Anoplobatus  species is that i'm fairly certain they are NOT self pollinating, at least not to a high degree. Getting as much genetic diversity as possible with compatible chromosome counts and the closest related species is key for good berry set.

My original thread is probably the one you should be replying to, and is found here:

http://opensourceplantbreeding.org/forum/index.php?topic=358.msg4306#msg4306

Andrew Barney

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Re: Wild Raspberries (need help from Arizona / New Mexico!)
« Reply #7 on: 2021-03-29, 09:18:41 PM »
I guess this thread can sort of be marked as "solved" since i have 1 cutting of Rubus neomexicanus. Though more genetic diversity of cutting of Rubus neomexicanus and Rubus deliciosus are more than welcome!