Author Topic: Breeding with wild tomato species  (Read 12891 times)

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #225 on: 2021-07-11, 11:31:15 AM »
I have some SC Chilense starting to get flower buds. Might as well use it as a father if possible.

Have some unknowns as well - possibly Penneli and a few others.

S. chmielewskii is getting more buds as well.

They all came up in my wild tomato pot.

First image is an unknown.

Second image has some large petaled Pimpinellifolium x Habrochaites F2 flowers. Excited to see the fruit. The F1 was hairy / orange.
« Last Edit: 2021-07-11, 12:03:31 PM by Garrett Schantz »

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #226 on: 2021-07-12, 12:34:28 PM »
Wild Gem Flowers.

They seem slightly larger than regular currant flowers I suppose. Not noticing exsertion though.

Might use these as a father to some other plants.

The leaves are quite interesting.

Adrian

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #227 on: 2021-07-12, 12:48:30 PM »
The last year i have grow a plant with flower who look like at your photo wuth the color dark yellow.
The fruit was gave a orange cherry tomato.
This variety was look like more resistive than the normals tomatos.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #228 on: 2021-07-12, 01:39:37 PM »
OK

Now to post this L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri) image.

At least that is what I think it is. I moved that plant from a cell that should have been J&L Gardens L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri).

Granted, I could have gotten habrochaites or another wild species mixed in or something. Only saying that due to how odd this plant is. It doesn't look like it has much habrochaites ancestry being expressed. A habrochaites mother would at least show some noticeable traits in the F1 offspring.

I will be reviewing some old images / tags to figure out what this is.

The plant is SC - non exserted. I am seeing quite a bit of flower drop - even though it has been outdoors. The flowers are pimpinellifolium sized.



There is the possibility that the L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri) is Wild Gem's parent. The leaf type fits. Wild Gem was created using a species from Ecuador - could be L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri) which is noted to be from Ecuador.


Wild Gem:

This difficult cross to a relative of the domestic tomato from the jungles of Ecuador has taken years for me to stabilize. The result is an unusual burnished golden cherry tomato with exceptional sweetness and depth of flavor. The sprawling plants bear well through a long season.


L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri):

Also known as L. peruvianum. this is a closely related species to the modern tomato and a rampant and lush vine bearing green-striped sprays of fruit at about 80 days. The fruit, produced in abundance, is edible, but quite bitter. I use it in breeding, but would grow it anyway because I like the scent (like cilantro), the foliage and the connection to a wild place. My original seed was sent to me from Ecuador and is quite rare outside a handful of research facilities.


First image has the mystery plant's mature leaf.

Second image has the mystery plant's stem.

Third image has the fruit.

Fourth image is a side view of Wild Gem's leaf. All of the leaves are sort of cupped inwards.


Assuming that this is a Peruvianum with an interspecies hybrid mixed back into it, this could be very useful in further breeding projects.

Lee is probably already creating even more lines if this is a Peruvianum complex hybrid.

Suppose I will try emailing Lee at some point and asking about all of this. I haven't talked to him on any forums before though.
« Last Edit: 2021-07-12, 01:45:21 PM by Garrett Schantz »

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #229 on: 2021-07-15, 06:00:38 PM »
Solanum chmielewskii flowers.

They appear to be exserted, I may attempt to pollinate this species with habrochaites accessions, wildling - etc.

If that doesn't work, I will try them as a male pollen donor.


Review of the type I have - from HRseeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLGUclL3IqU


Some notable things from the review:

Chmielewsky’s calyx can turn possibly purple - possibly from anthocyanin? Google images shows some very deep purpling for this species calyx.

10 1/2 brix - Brix measures "sugars", might not be all from a sweet taste. Could be minerals and other things.

"Sweet - then odd flavor / somewhat like a berry - inside gel portion has no tanginess, strange flavors. Fish / "Earthy" tone.

Skin/flesh tanginess - too tough to chew.


The fruit itself seems to be of the most interest to me. The strange flavors could mix well into the "Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project" - I now know that the flowers are exserted, so I don't need to worry about that, main annoyance would be the flower size.

I remember someone mentioning a fishy flavored tomato on the "Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project" thread on Permies.


If this plant doesn't die before it fruits, I will try and send seed out to people. The plant is picky about how I water it - main goal right now is to obtain seed for further experiments with it.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #230 on: 2021-07-15, 10:53:05 PM »
I am growing L. peruvianum from Experimental Farm Network.  My plant is a long way from flowering, let alone fruiting, but EFN describe it as having sweet fruit. 

This doesn't match your description of : L. glandulosum (S. corneliomuelleri) which you say is also known as L. peruvianum, so what is my plant likely to be?





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Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #231 on: 2021-07-15, 11:37:23 PM »
I am growing L. peruvianum from Experimental Farm Network.  My plant is a long way from flowering, let alone fruiting, but EFN describe it as having sweet fruit. 

This doesn't match your description of : L. glandulosum (S. corneliomuelleri) which you say is also known as L. peruvianum, so what is my plant likely to be?

EFN sells Joseph's landrace -  probably has mix of corneliomuelleri and  L. peruvianum to some degree. Apparently they can hybridize easily - both species have quite a bit of variation as well.

J&L's type should have small - green fruits. Some of my plants have domestic traits, so either seeds were mixed up somewhere or it's a backcross of some sort, dunno. I had these ones under bad lighting, so a lot of these died...

Joseph has probably selected for the sweeter L. Peruvianum fruits - anthocyanin - larger fruit.

L. Peruvianum used to include a bunch of other species, L. corneliomuelleri is considered by a lot of people to just be a subspecies.

My peruvianums are already flowering - no fruits yet though. Granted I started them pretty early in the season.

I could post some L. Peruvianum types tomorrow. There are some different flower formations / leaf types etc. Joseph's types are a mix. Just make sure that you have multiple plants as they are self incompatible.

The quoted portions are the text taken from J&L gardens item descriptions. Joseph's types probably aren't bitter like J&L's.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #232 on: 2021-07-17, 01:13:21 PM »
The second S. chmielewskii flower to open up has more of an exsertion than most of the S. habrochaites that I am growing. I will screen out the rest of the flowers to see if this is common.

I used Wild Gem pollen on one flowers, Large Flowered - Highly exserted habrochaites pollen on the other flower.

I haven't tried buzzing these - they are indoors, so if these set fruit - they probably crossed.

I have read that S. chmielewskii is generally SC. Hopefully this means that S. habrochaites pollen will work as a father.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #233 on: 2021-07-17, 01:15:24 PM »
One of the Neandermatos finally started opening up it's flower buds.

Not seeing any exsertion on the two flowers that have opened so far...

Even the SC types that I am growing have exsertion - maybe these backcrossed with a domestic? Suppose I will find out...

The flowers are larger than most other habrochaites.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #234 on: 2021-07-17, 06:32:22 PM »
Figured I would post some images of my favorite Peruvianum plant so far.

It has filled quite a few things on the checklist of traits I am looking for.

- More exserted than other Peruvianum plants

- Flowers open up at around the same time on bracts created masses of large flowers (Other types sometimes take 5 day before the flowers all open)

- Grew quickly indoors, twice the size of others from Joseph's Peruvianum mix

- Grows upwards, only the base of the plant ever touches the soil

- Multiple upwards branches

- Larger leaves than most of the other Peruvianum / Corneliomulleri types, smaller than domestics


Now the negatives:

- Doesn't seem as resistant to the blight here in comparison to other Peruvianum specimens

- Doesn't have the frilled leaves that are common in Peruvianum / Corneliomulleri

- Unsure if this is a negative yet, has a different leaf coloration than the other Peruvianum / Corneliomulleri specimens

- Flower branches aren't very large, bees may not see the flowers



I have a disease resistant Peruvianum, no blight on it so far - probably going to pollinate a bunch of the others with that one. Of course bees probably already did that for me, doesn't hurt to do it manually as well.


I used Wild Gem pollen on some lower Peruvianum branches, on different plants / accessions. Might not do anything, worth a try though - still unsure of it's heritage.

If I remember correctly, some others here were growing some Peruvianum hybrids from gene banks. Hopefully those work out well in terms of backcrossing.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #235 on: 2021-07-17, 06:53:19 PM »
Some better L. glandalosum (S. corneliomulleri) - probable hybrid images.

I mentioned before that the flowers were pimpinellifolium sized - they are actually smaller. The fruits so far are pear sized, so there has to be some sort of small flowered genetic somewhere in the parentage.

The only species that I can think of with flowers smaller than pimpinellifolium are: S. arcanum - S. chmielewskii - S. neorickii. Of course those species also have larger flowered accessions.

There are also small flowered S. pennellii - S. habrochaites - S. chilense etc.

So all I can do at this point is make guesses as to how this was created.


The fruits that aren't buried under foliage have deep purple calyxes - which also doesn't help me very much as multiple species have that trait, including domestic introgressions. Slight purpling on the branches doesn't help much either - I suppose there aren't many hairs to speak of / also no roughness.


I will try and use the flowers to pollinate a bunch of wilds - chop off the petals, that whole deal. Not even going to attempt to emasculate these flowers.



I had a few others like this that I ripped out a while back - I do regret that. Some of them had different leaf types, were still off type. Didn't have enough room and I figured they were mislabeled seeds(Which they may be, I don't know).

I also have a bunch of wild species crammed in the same pot - I forgot about the pot outside and eventually noticed these the other seeds had germinated. So I had one plant that I transferred into the pot along with a bunch of semi-mature wilds.

I might end up chopped some of them for proper airflow.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #236 on: 2021-07-17, 10:45:11 PM »
Pear-sized?  Like a Bartlett?

or Pear-shaped?
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Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #237 on: 2021-07-18, 12:42:00 AM »
Pear shaped - cherry sized maybe.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #238 on: 2021-07-20, 04:15:07 PM »
One of the Pimpinellifolium x Habrochaites F2 has some small fruits on it.

Calyx / Sepals, resemble the habrochaites. Flowers are somewhat large, some orange / brown coloration on them as well.


Also posting the flowers of a Fuzzy leaved Wildling. The plant has small fuzzy leaves. Couldn't get a clear image of the leaves. Hopefully it has some "fun" flavors.