Hi guys,
Who shares their tomato seeds? I am interested in any wild tomatoes and their hybrids.
Solanum cheesmaniae, Solanum galapagense failed to germinate, but no more seeds. How to germinate them? These two are the most difficult.
Who would like to send it to me?
I germinate Solanum cheesmanae and Solanum galapagense just like regular tomato seeds. I have selected for a decade for varieties that germinate easily without any special treatment.
By contrast I follow the TGRC germination protocols on those two.
https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/seedgermination
I would not expect mine to germinate well without them. You get what you select for, but also selection narrows down the germplasm in an accession. So I've opted not to select differently than TGRC does.
Fresh seed helps alot though!
I have hybrids with galapagense. I think they may have happened at HR seeds though I was able make a hybrid with the hybrid. So 25% and 50%.
I don't use scalpel for removing the seed coat but i use the sand paper.I don't know if its more precise.
Quote from: William Schlegel on 2023-12-09, 06:05:15 PMBy contrast I follow the TGRC germination protocols on those two.
Just to give some more feedback on this - I found some seeds of galapagense and cheesmaniae germinated without bleach, but bleach did improve germination rates, even when using a much more dilute solution than the TGRC recommends and just for half an hour. I did not however do any extensive germination tests with varying dilutions and times, which could be quite interesting. I also found bleach helping for some other wild species. William gave me a nice tip which I'll share here - if germination is not happening without bleach, you can always bleach those same seeds that haven't been germinating. I also did this with good success, germinating seeds I had almost given up on!
I also love Joseph's idea of selecting against that need. For SC seeds, given large seed quantities I would want to do that. I might do the same given large enough seed quantity of SI seeds too but especially for smaller quantities I think like William said, preserving genetic diversity is important if you want any sustainability in the population. Also one way to protect at least some of that diversity which might be lost even in a large SI seed population, could be to make controlled crosses between each plant, then germinate each controlled cross as a separate batch. Selecting for easily germinating seeds among those would at least allow for selection of equal numbers of plants from each cross (and if necessary, using bleach for any cross that didn't germinate seeds naturally). This still may cause genetic loss but it should be minimised to some extent at least.
I would use the full-strength protocol. It might help disinfest virus off the seeds spread by the whiteflies Alex is fighting. Might help you keep just far enough ahead of the virus to keep your breeding stock alive.
Alex: I would suggest starting a thread about your tomato breeding project and explaining some more details about where you are and what you are trying to achieve. I suspect your project is really interesting and a lot of people would like to know more about it. I think it would help folks to understand what tomato varieties might help with it.
I am successfully growing S.cheesmaniae x unknown S.lycopersicum (natural hybrid from Galapagos Islands). But it is susceptible to whitefly. Another problem is ants, they eat my tomatoes. They do not eat this hybrid.
Also setting your location in your profile will help
I got S.cheesmaniae from Joseph and S.galapagense from William. Thank you, guys.
I have successfully germinated all the seeds you sent me. S. galapagense only sprouted 2 out of 19 seeds, I hope it survives. Thanks a lot.
Quote from: William Schlegel on 2023-12-09, 06:05:15 PMBy contrast I follow the TGRC germination protocols on those two.
Do you do the 30 minute bleach soak, or the 60 minute soak?
Quote from: Cathy A on 2024-01-12, 06:18:51 AMDo you do the 30 minute bleach soak, or the 60 minute soak?
I follow the TGRC protocol by species.
The S.cheesmaniae population of Joseph died, unable to withstand the hot climate, although it is only spring, summer will be even hotter. This population has lost its heat resistance.
Quote from: Alex on 2024-03-14, 05:01:21 PMThe S.cheesmaniae population of Joseph died, unable to withstand the hot climate
How can you be sure it was due to heat, not some other factor?
Confounding variables are a problem in observation but also maladapted is maladapted. Do other Solanum cheesmaniae accessions that did not spend generations adapting to a northerly high elevation short season climate retain their vigour?
Quote from: Justin Jardinier on 2024-03-14, 07:41:24 PMHow can you be sure it was due to heat, not some other factor?
This is very easy to determine. I know when there have been particularly hot days, I monitor the effect of the heat on all my tomatoes (I have about 70 different ones). Young leaves, especially the tops, get burned and a burn occurs. All my plants are in the shade, not under the sun, they are only affected by the heat.
Quote from: William Schlegel on 2024-03-14, 09:01:10 PMDo other Solanum cheesmaniae accessions that did not spend generations adapting to a northerly high elevation short season climate retain their vigour?
I have several S. cheesmaniae hybrids, they are doing well and survived the last hot summer normally.
"SI x SI" from Joseph:
IMG_20240315_175227.jpg
IMG_20240315_175202.jpg
IMG_20240315_175236.jpg
S.cheesmaniae (HRSeeds) was not better:
IMG_20240315_175415.jpg
I double checked. This is not S. cheesmaniae from Joseph, it is alive, this is from HRSeeds. Loss of heat resistance may have occurred in Poland. Many seeds from Poland are now in question.
If it's this one:
https://www.hrseeds.com/galapagos-island-tomato-2
then he spells it wrong ("Solanum cheesmanii") and though he claims:
QuoteSome of the them are natural hybrids that crossed with solanum pimpinellifolium which are an invasive species in the archipelago. This variation seems to be from the original plants on the island.
I am pretty sure it is in fact a lycopersicum hybrid.
Alex, what had the t° at the period of thoses pictures was take?
The leafs under seem healthy.
The leafs under are also necrosis?
They all growed in the same soil?
In what soil they growed?
If the leafs under are healthy it seem more dor me at a small micro-nutrient deficiency.
Quote from: Justin Jardinier on 2024-03-15, 07:03:16 AMIf it's this one:
https://www.hrseeds.com/galapagos-island-tomato-2 (https://www.hrseeds.com/galapagos-island-tomato-2)
https://www.hrseeds.com/galapagos-island-tomato-type-3
Quote from: Justin Jardinier on 2024-03-15, 07:03:16 AMI am pretty sure it is in fact a lycopersicum hybrid.
Yes, I grow it too. I do not like it. Not my taste. But it grows well.
Yeah, maybe that one is genuine. It's hit and miss with him, he has a lot of misinformation on his site and is (or has been with me at least) entirely immune to feedback.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 07:21:08 AMAlex, what had the t° at the period of thoses pictures was take?
A few days later after several hot days.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 07:21:08 AMThe leafs under are also necrosis?
If it gets even hotter, then yes.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 07:21:08 AMThey all growed in the same soil?
Yes.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 07:21:08 AMIn what soil they growed?
Mix of soil, sand, chalk.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 07:21:08 AMIf the leafs under are healthy it seem more dor me at a small micro-nutrient deficiency.
This is out of the question; I apply fertilizer. These are features of the tropical climate. The weak parts of the plant, and these are the growing points, are burned. You can fry eggs on the asphalt in summer. The plant may produce stepsons, trying to survive, but they get burned again. So the plant balances on the edge of life and death, it either survives, does not reach flowering, will never produce fruit, or dies. It's cooler in winter, but even that may not be enough. All my plants are in equal conditions.
Quote from: Justin Jardinier on 2024-03-15, 08:52:38 AMYeah, maybe that one is genuine.
It has small seeds, characteristic of pure S. cheesmaniae in size, in addition, it germinates very poorly due to the thick seed coat. It grows very slowly, S. cheesmaniae from Joseph grows very quickly.
Summer high temperatures in the Galapagos Islands range about 20F cooler than my climate. And summer night-time temperatures range about 20F hotter than my climate.
In italy,farmers expand a shadow veil who protected of the too strongs sunshines rays of the some fields. It seem not very expensive and efficient.
https://www.ilgiardinocommestibile.it/suggerimenti/lombreggiatura-come-proteggere-il-giardino-dal-sole-reti-ombreggianti-e-altre-soluzioni/
The soaking 24 at 48 hours in water can help thoses seeds to germinated more easily.
In the coat seed stayed sticky at the cotyledons i wet the her many times by day and put a mini greenhouse above the planters for improved the air humidity.
The better for me is the seedlind in a hermetic plastic box with a transparent lid.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 03:05:53 PMThe soaking 24 at 48 hours in water can help thoses seeds to germinated more easily.
Diluted bleach works very well for the Galapagos species. I also wonder about letting them rot - some fruits I have seen fall victim to fruit flies, and eventually smell like ammonia. I wonder if that might have a similar effect to bleach, though I have not run tests.
Current weather at Guam international Airport is 78 degrees F and 85% humidity. Daytime highs and nighttime lows aren't that different this week on weather.gov. Expected high today of 84 and low of 75 F.
Is the high humidity part of this heat problem? Here in my garden tomato plants widely handle the hottest days we get around 100 F. Lows are always much lower than the highs. We are a little less extreme than Joseph here. Typical summer day here has a little cooler of a day and a little warmer of a night but still very similar. It's basically the same climate a days drive north.
Quote from: Adrian on 2024-03-15, 03:05:53 PMIn italy,farmers expand a shadow veil who protected of the too strongs sunshines rays of the some fields. It seem not very expensive and efficient.
https://www.ilgiardinocommestibile.it/suggerimenti/lombreggiatura-come-proteggere-il-giardino-dal-sole-reti-ombreggianti-e-altre-soluzioni/ (https://www.ilgiardinocommestibile.it/suggerimenti/lombreggiatura-come-proteggere-il-giardino-dal-sole-reti-ombreggianti-e-altre-soluzioni/)
I am using a similar method.
Quote from: William Schlegel on 2024-03-15, 04:01:21 PMHere in my garden tomato plants widely handle the hottest days we get around 100 F
Are your frogs, snails, or worms drying up? We have their corpses everywhere on hot days. There may be no rain for weeks, and if it rains, the moisture will instantly evaporate in 5-10 minutes.
Humidity is better tolerated by plants than heat. On hot days I irrigate.
It's not just tomatoes that burn. Bell peppers suffer greatly.
Tomatoes are not able to survive: Arcanum group (S.neorickii, S.arcanum, S.chmielewskii); S.peruvianum, S.pennellii are between life and death; non-heat resistant S.lycopersicum. But this could also be due to the fact that they previously grew up in Poland.
Quote from: Justin Jardinier on 2024-03-15, 03:45:40 PMDiluted bleach works very well for the Galapagos species.
It works well for nightshades. It is also better to soak wild tomatoes for at least 15 minutes in a 3% bleach solution. Otricoli berries (orange S.nightshade) have a strong seed coat and can take months to germinate without bleach (0,5-1 hour, 3%).
Quote from: William Schlegel on 2024-03-15, 04:01:21 PMCurrent weather at Guam international Airport is 78 degrees F and 85% humidity. Daytime highs and nighttime lows aren't that different this week on weather.gov (https://weather.gov/). Expected high today of 84 and low of 75 F.
It's not hot today, cooler than in the heat.