Here's the link:
https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/collections/new-for-2023
I'll post things that look interesting to me and why they look that way to me.
Might try the fuzzy bean landrace, even though I have a ton of fuzzy bean seed laid by (around here, they add it to the stuff they put on the edges of the railroad tracks and disturbed areas ON PURPOSE, to help keep down soil erosion.
Ironically, besides the traits they are looking for (bigger seeds and non-shattering pods) it might be a good idea to search for ones with reduced fuzzyness of seed (the fuzz can tickle your throat).
But there should be a good chance of pulling off what they want. Fuzzy bean is semi-domesticated anyway (most deposits early settlers took from were the result of Native American tribes tossing the seeds around the edges of their settlements for a quick emergency food source, so no one really knows what a true "wild" population would look like.
Thimbleberries from Michigan look very interesting, though a need for 90 days warm stratification followed by 90 days cold stratification would be difficult to achieve in 2023 for seeds bought in January or later.
I'd like to see more berry fruit options available that are comfortable in cold climates.
Quote from: Jeremy Weiss on 2023-01-12, 08:30:37 AMMight try the fuzzy bean landrace, even though I have a ton of fuzzy bean seed laid by (around here, they add it to the stuff they put on the edges of the railroad tracks and disturbed areas ON PURPOSE, to help keep down soil erosion.
Ironically, besides the traits they are looking for (bigger seeds and non-shattering pods) it might be a good idea to search for ones with reduced fuzzyness of seed (the fuzz can tickle your throat).
But there should be a good chance of pulling off what they want. Fuzzy bean is semi-domesticated anyway (most deposits early settlers took from were the result of Native American tribes tossing the seeds around the edges of their settlements for a quick emergency food source, so no one really knows what a true "wild" population would look like.
I have a wild bean that resembles the description of that one except it is not fuzzy at all. I posted about it with a photo somewhere, sometime in the history of various forums and I think it was you Jeremy that identified it. Do you by chance remember that?
Not sure, my memory isn't that good. There IS such a thing as the smooth fuzzy bean, but it's seeds look VERY different from the others (plus, it's a lot smaller, and kind of rare).
If I remember correctly the fuzz on the beans helps prevent mold and things on the beans.
Phaseolus species get mold while in their pods when certain conditions are met, other reasonings.
It's actually an interesting trait to me, as the genera are closely related.
The fuzzy bean sold by these guys last time was a wild population type rather than a mix. That one was different than the type Prariemoon sells.
Prairiemoon also sells Strophostyles leiosperma.
I believe there's a perennial fuzzy bean, some other related species as well.
A non fuzzy one wouldn't be surprising.
Phaseolus polystachios is another "wild bean" of interest with mildew / mold resistances and other fun traits.
There is a Crambe species other than the usually sold one. (There's also a more cold tolerant selection, lilywhite is still on there as well.
I've grown Crambe tataria from cultivariable before, I mishandled them, started them too early.
This year EFN has Giant Colewort - Crambe cordifolia.
I also kept saying that I'd buy Good-King-Henry - another perennial green, also trying out the long lived chard mix.
I've germinated seed of a true perennial Beta species, also screwed that one up.
I'll be growing oyster leaf in this same area, probably.
As for other items, I'll probably try seeing if I can force Manuka to survive in zone 8 - it's listed for zone 9. I'll also try growing out "Tea" Camellia sinensis, "Tea oil camellia" Camellia oleifera, "New Jersey Tea" Ceanothus americanus.
A lot of these are simply used to make Tea. I'll also search for Bay leaf seeds or a plant somewhere too.
Sweetscent, a few other things like milkweed, snakeroot - hummingbirds are plentiful in this state. They seem like larger species than what we had in PA. And, while the ones back home would fight or spin around each other a bit - these ones actually fight each other.
They camp on feeders, even if they aren't being used they'll guard it. So, more flowering plants and things for them are in order I think. Got some species they'll enjoy like Yucca, some other stuff. Granted I'm not sure if they can fully pollinate Yucca.
I also already have a Kniphofia planted, salvias should be great too.
'Kagawa' Sunset Hibiscus - used for its greens. Korean Silkflower, is another variety from the same species that they also sell.
Ones from a lab in Japan that used the species for studies / also has larger leaf sizes apparently. I'll probably get both, allow them to cross and see if anything fun happens.
It's somewhat related Red Roselle, Zebrina, Marsh Mallow, Okra, Egyptian Spinach - all of which I'm also probably growing. Bees will probably love this grow out.
Also going to try the Lahague Grex Okra. I already have a bunch of others to try out in terms of Okra - grexes / species.
Going to try growing the olive variety,Lofthouse Sweet Pepper Grex, Prickly pears they offer, Sichuan pepper, Persimmon, Medlar. Also the Southern Magnolia Vine, and Eastern Prince Schisandra. Might try growing some elderberry species too.
A lot of these seem to be sourced from Sheffields.
Wow! How many acres do you have?
Quote from: Jeremy Weiss on 2023-01-12, 09:50:08 AMNot sure, my memory isn't that good. There IS such a thing as the smooth fuzzy bean, but its seeds look VERY different from the others (plus, it's a lot smaller, and kind of rare).
I can't find the pictures of it, and I haven't even looked for the seeds yet. I remember though, that the seeds look like fat, black, shiny rice and the pods shatter if you look at them wrong. If you pick some still pretty green and put them in a paper bag for a couple days, you will hear them popping open.
Quote from: Diane Whitehead on 2023-01-12, 02:23:27 PMWow! How many acres do you have?
I'm not doing a lot of things in large plantings, which saves up room - neighbors till up everyone's property too.
Most of the Tea plants / shrubs are pretty small.
I can probably dedicate one large area to this sort of stuff just because a portion of the property is in a very odd location with a slope that then leads to a bit of land before a forest.
I'm not separating a lot of things either.
Being in zone 8a now, also means that I can start a lot of things outside rather than inside in cells or pots.
Most of the Tea plants max out at around 20ft so they can work near the house. Elderberry and things can work being next to them as well.
It's mostly cramming stuff so it fits without pest issues.
Less lawn to mow I suppose.
Also using all the fallen branches that fall out of the forest (mostly oak, some sycamores and maples too - bit of birch, last property only had pine available as fallen wood) in preparation for some areas.
The oyster leaf, crambe species and some others can work under the base of some of the 20ft trees or just around them. A lot of those plants have nice flowers so they work as ornamentals with nice flowers - feed bees. Nice excuse to put them closer to the house.
Apparently Okra is popular in Mississippi, so I'm probably growing some Okra to just give away - different people may like different varieties or enjoy the whole grex idea.
Probably won't do a huge corn grow out due to everything else.
Most of the Solanums will be grown in the same cluster, Okra and its relatives the same - that sort of idea. Probably only doing a few pepper plants.
Okra and some other things can be grow pretty tightly packed to an extent.
Medlar and some other things are trees, so they'll be in their own area.
Honestly, the yard floods due to it being a swamp and Salvia lyrata covers everything. So, I'm just shrugging and seeing what all I can squeeze in and grow. There's probably plenty of water for trees and things.
Tomatoes will mostly have one plant per variety unless I have a few that my parents / others really like.
Haven't really gardened here before. So, melons - tomatoes and things that I'm planting will partially be me seeing what all does the best here, or seeing any issues - things I should select for.
Quote from: Garrett Schantz on 2023-01-12, 02:06:59 PMAs for other items, I'll probably try seeing if I can force Manuka to survive in zone 8 - it's listed for zone 9. I'll also try growing out "Tea" Camellia sinensis, "Tea oil camellia" Camellia oleifera, "New Jersey Tea" Ceanothus americanus.
A lot of these are simply used to make Tea. I'll also search for Bay leaf seeds or a plant somewhere too.
The main reason I'm not bothering with tea isn't that I don't think it would grow, I just don't think I could turn it into tea I'd want to drink. Making a top quality oolong is a VERY time consuming process. Even making black tea take a lot of work and timing knowledge. So I'd basically be stuck with plain green tea, and probably not very good quality at that (given I don't live on top of some high craggy mountains in China where I need trained monkeys to do the actual picking).
Same thing with the Tea oil. I LOVE camellia oil (the name I learned it under). It's the best stuff in the WORLD for pan frying (of all food oils, it has the highest smoke point, and so can be gotten the hottest without burning). But the rather meagre amount of actual seed I'd get and the time to process it wouldn't be worth it (even considering how much camellia oil GOES FOR now)
If you have some dry places, you might also want to look into Greek Mountain Tea (Sideris sp.). That tastes pretty good, and has a lot of antioxidants. I think Ricter's herbs sells seeds (I simply collect the seeds that are still occasionally stuck in the bunches I get from the market, so I have never had to actually buy any).
If you ever DO find a bay big enough to make fruit, let me know, I think there are some recipes that require the use of bay fruits (which I think are oily, like olives, given that Bay is a laurel).
Green Roselle might be interesting as well. I've been told that is also used for a vegetable (though it would be interesting to use the calices in the same way the red ones are and see what kind of flavor sorrel has when it has no anthocyanidins in it.)
I'm interested in the beautyberry, thimbleberry, and manuka seeds. But I checked manuka's growing zone, and it looks . . . let's say unlikely to survive my winters. (Wry grin.) And I already have beautyberry seeds, and I'd rather have thimbleberry seeds from a drier place than Washington state. They apparently do grow wild in Utah, so I'd love to find some that are native. Haven't found any yet.
I may pick them both up at some point when I have other things I want to order, though. There are a lot of good things.
I got some Sepp rye. I thought it sounded cool since I first heard of him. Won't hurt to try it. I got grain rye locally to use as a cover crop and to try hand threshing etc. I imagine it'll be shorter than the Sepp rye so it could be pollinated by it. We'll see.
I also got the Storage Onion wide cross mix f2. See how that does. I got 3 onion varieties to start my own so this could offer wider genetics for me starting.
I was sad to see the Nanticoke is still out of stock. Darn. I only have 7 seed from my packet because last year I got everything in late and it was too hot.
https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/collections/new-for-2023/products/wild-everglades-tomato
I enjoyed reading this little add for this strain of currant tomato.
Quote from: Jeremy Weiss on 2023-01-12, 04:23:39 PMThe main reason I'm not bothering with tea isn't that I don't think it would grow, I just don't think I could turn it into tea I'd want to drink. Making a top quality oolong is a VERY time consuming process. Even making black tea take a lot of work and timing knowledge. So I'd basically be stuck with plain green tea, and probably not very good quality at that (given I don't live on top of some high craggy mountains in China where I need trained monkeys to do the actual picking).
Same thing with the Tea oil. I LOVE camellia oil (the name I learned it under). It's the best stuff in the WORLD for pan frying (of all food oils, it has the highest smoke point, and so can be gotten the hottest without burning). But the rather meagre amount of actual seed I'd get and the time to process it wouldn't be worth it (even considering how much camellia oil GOES FOR now)
If you have some dry places, you might also want to look into Greek Mountain Tea (Sideris sp.). That tastes pretty good, and has a lot of antioxidants. I think Ricter's herbs sells seeds (I simply collect the seeds that are still occasionally stuck in the bunches I get from the market, so I have never had to actually buy any).
If you ever DO find a bay big enough to make fruit, let me know, I think there are some recipes that require the use of bay fruits (which I think are oily, like olives, given that Bay is a laurel).
Green Roselle might be interesting as well. I've been told that is also used for a vegetable (though it would be interesting to use the calices in the same way the red ones are and see what kind of flavor sorrel has when it has no anthocyanidins in it.)
Yeah, with the plants I'm looking at for tea usages or other things - some of them have edible greens and whatnot. Both Camellia species would make nice ornamentals as a bonus, I think. The one used for oil also has a usage with its leaves that makes some sort of oil for use on skin.
That one also has types with pink flowers, seems to generally have longer / larger flower petals than the other species, a bit more cold hardier to maybe zone 6.
I'd be interested in crossing the species, with the help of bees probably.
I'll look into some of the other tea plants that you mentioned. I've been playing around with experimental tea batches. Granted I'm not just tossing in random stuff. Rather not make a unhealthy dose of something.
I believe some Okra species actually have edible leaves which are typically cooked as well. The mallows and things like Zebrina or Marshmallow (two different genera, same family), also have edible leaves. Same with Red Roselle having edible leaves.
Of course molokhia has edible leaves as well.
These are all in the same family. From what I can tell, their calyxes / sepals and flowers tend to be edible as well.
I'm only bothering with Manuka, because Australian and Tasmanian species tend to surprise me with their hardiness. And, some some 9 or 8b species are perennial here.
Tasmannia lanceolata and Billardiera longiflora are more or less hardy to USDA zone 7a. Some reports say 8a, or 7b - I know people growing them in 6b or 6a. So, probably 7a is more accurate.
Some other species are interesting like that from Australia and New Zealand, Tasmannia.
Gaultheria hispida the snowberry, is from a higher elevation in Tasmania and there have been glaciation events there - so that one being hardy to USDA zone 5 isn't as shocking.
Drimys winteri and Tasmannia stipitata are also of interest, but I'm probably going off topic anyway since they aren't on the catalog.
I'm really liking EFN's catalog. I was looking at beautyberry too.
Quote from: Garrett Schantz on 2023-01-12, 08:26:54 PMYeah, with the plants I'm looking at for tea usages or other things - some of them have edible greens and whatnot. Both Camellia species would make nice ornamentals as a bonus, I think. The one used for oil also has a usage with its leaves that makes some sort of oil for use on skin.
That one also has types with pink flowers, seems to generally have longer / larger flower petals than the other species, a bit more cold hardier to maybe zone 6.
I'd be interested in crossing the species, with the help of bees probably.
I'll look into some of the other tea plants that you mentioned. I've been playing around with experimental tea batches. Granted I'm not just tossing in random stuff. Rather not make a unhealthy dose of something.
Just remember that, if those camellias can cross with each other, they can probably cross with any ornamental camellias you have as well, and most of those do NOT taste good.
I don't THINK there is a dangerous dose of Ironwort (the common name for Sideris) I've drunk about a half gallon or so over a night, and had no ill effects (other than having to go to the bathroom from all that liquid.)
The worst thing I can say about it is that it oxidizes a bit more quickly than real tea, so, for example, you probably aren't going to like it if you put your leftovers in the fridge overnight and drink it in the morning)
The Greeks often blend it with mint and thyme.
Oh, interesting! Well, if you plant manuka, and it manages to survive one of your zone 6 winters, let me know! It's a tree I'd like to have. I just don't want to plant any trees this year that aren't cold hardy enough to survive here, other than the eighteen zillion banana plants. They're getting all my good spaces this year. (Laugh.)
Buffalo Bird Woman's squash is an exciting addition this year. Having read about her in Carol Deppe's books, I'm quite curious about what those squashes taste like. Very cool of EFN to find seeds and make them available.
I have no current plans to plant manuka at this time. Tree space is at a premium here, and I already have SO MANY tree related projects I want to try (seeing if Yuzus can survive the winter here, sowing all of those greengage and other plum pits I have accumulated, trying out those Hunza apricot pits, Testing out both Hinds and Manchurian Walnut, Yellow Horn, Chinese Hickory, leaving a spot open for that mulberry in the pot on the patio in case it turns out to be a domestic rather than a wild seeded one etc.) I only have about 1/20th of an acre of usable land, and most of that is ALREADY occupied by trees I am not legally allowed to take down.
I was disappointed that beach plum is sold out already or not being offered this year. It was the same when I checked last year. Eos has some but doesn't ship to canada (if I could even afford their crazy prices).
Some interesting grains at EFN this season. I'm very tempted.
Also wanted to mention that Prairie Garden Seeds already have their 2023 catalogue up, and they are back to offering the full range of vegetable seeds this year with lots of interesting stuff. Not all of the favas are in stock, maybe about half of them. (Their collection of favas is really impressive.)
Okay, I decided what I wanted to order this year! I spent more than I wanted to, but there were a lot of very good seeds. :)
I bought a load of cold hardy brassicas, including stocks and sea kale, which look interesting. I enjoy brassicas, and I want to be able to use them as crops through my whole winters.
After an intriguing discussion in another forum about how cold hardy plants might help less cold hardy plants near them survive a bit more easily, I also think I want to plant brassicas around all my bananas in winter. It should be a great companion planting anyway, because both like lots of water and nitrogen, the bananas won't shade the brassicas in winter, and the brassicas will appreciate being shaded by the bananas in midsummer.
It would be very, very interesting if the reverse is also true, and heat tolerant plants help less heat tolerant plants near them survive a bit more easily. I had a brussels sprouts plant that grew huge and vigorous last year in between a tomato plant and a whole ton of zucchinis, with no signs of any problems with full sun in 100 degree weather and very little water, so it's possible the plants are helping each other out in both directions. It's hard to be sure, but I see no disadvantage to alternating species as if that were the case.
I also bought the Buffalo Bird Woman pepo squash landrace and the Pueblo Highlands maxima squash landrace, because they both sound delicious and probably very well adapted to my climate.
Yeah, I cut out most of the trees that I ordered and a bunch of other things. I had seeds I wanted from elsewhere, so my budget was not agreeing with everything I wanted.
I ordered some Hablitzia, Good-King-Henry, Gnarly Long-lived Beet Leaf Mix, both Abelmoschus manihot varieties, still have Molokhia seeds from them I never planted as well as Red Aztec Spinach' Huauzontle, Giant Colewort and Lilywhite Seakale, Marshmallow.
I do wish I'd ordered Joystick' Sea Thrift, Orach, Wild Evening Primrose, Faster Strawberry Spinach, Turkish Rocket, 'Magenta Spreen' Tree Spinach (or Giant Goosefoot) - interesting greens.
I have Oysterleaf, Red Roselle, New Zealand Spinach and some other greens from elsewhere. I'll have to search for Okahiji Saltwort again.
And yeah, cold hardy plants root systems can insulate or help non cold hardy plants roots if they grow close together. The foliage of greens can insulate bananas and things if they are grown very close to them.
Burdock, Rhubarb, Seakale, Colewort Good-King-Henry - and yeah some other brassica types can be great for insulation.
I think Colewort and Seakale are related to Brassicas to an extent.
I've been looking for greens and other things that aren't from the same genus. They usually have no issues from pests that attack other greens. And if they naturalize, there's a wide diversity of food.
Sorrel is fine too.
EFN was selling a thing they called celery, but it's another species and they had it listed as such. I can't remember it's name. If I find that again, I'll grow it again.
Quote from: Garrett Schantz on 2023-01-15, 02:16:17 PMYeah, I cut out most of the trees that I ordered and a bunch of other things. I had seeds I wanted from elsewhere, so my budget was not agreeing with everything I wanted.
I ordered some Hablitzia, Good-King-Henry, Gnarly Long-lived Beet Leaf Mix, both Abelmoschus manihot varieties, still have Molokhia seeds from them I never planted as well as Red Aztec Spinach' Huauzontle, Giant Colewort and Lilywhite Seakale, Marshmallow.
I do wish I'd ordered Joystick' Sea Thrift, Orach, Wild Evening Primrose, Faster Strawberry Spinach, Turkish Rocket, 'Magenta Spreen' Tree Spinach (or Giant Goosefoot) - interesting greens.
I have Oysterleaf, Red Roselle, New Zealand Spinach and some other greens from elsewhere. I'll have to search for Okahiji Saltwort again.
And yeah, cold hardy plants root systems can insulate or help non cold hardy plants roots if they grow close together. The foliage of greens can insulate bananas and things if they are grown very close to them.
Burdock, Rhubarb, Seakale, Colewort Good-King-Henry - and yeah some other brassica types can be great for insulation.
I think Colewort and Seakale are related to Brassicas to an extent.
I've been looking for greens and other things that aren't from the same genus. They usually have no issues from pests that attack other greens. And if they naturalize, there's a wide diversity of food.
Sorrel is fine too.
EFN was selling a thing they called celery, but it's another species and they had it listed as such. I can't remember it's name. If I find that again, I'll grow it again.
In a month or so (once I have recovered from all of the seeds I have already bought) I'm probably going to make another order to my seller in Ghana, to get some of his mung beans for my experimental grow out (the strain he is offering, which is Nigerian, seems to be quite high in yellow seeds as opposed to green ones, so might be useful for my multicolor project).
When I do that, I very well may order a package of the Senegalese Green Roselle as well. And if I do, there will be PLENTY of seed to share around with anyone who wants it, since even his smallest package tends to be about 200 seeds for seeds that size (he packages in pretty big bags). He SAID that is an edible green, and if you are in a position to grow red roselle, you're probably in a good area to grow green (now, if I could only find another source for the Ecuadorian Black......)
Yellow Roselle sounds interesting. As does the green type.
I grew Red Roselle before in PA. Went to a tech school with a heated greenhouse. Ended up bringing a beast home. That was Zone 6a.
I think depending on the year, there's a 50/50 chance that Red Roselle survives the winters here.
I'll still get calyxes and whatnot off them, regardless.
It's difficult to find different strains of the "Red" Roselle types. I think there's one type with large calyxes - huge ones.
Any different colored calyx types would be interesting to try out.
The seller I got my new Roselle seeds from, grows them from seed in 6a. So, I suppose these may be adapted to shorter growing seasons.
Quote from: Garrett Schantz on 2023-01-16, 11:30:20 AMYellow Roselle sounds interesting. As does the green type.
I grew Red Roselle before in PA. Went to a tech school with a heated greenhouse. Ended up bringing a beast home. That was Zone 6a.
I think depending on the year, there's a 50/50 chance that Red Roselle survives the winters here.
I'll still get calyxes and whatnot off them, regardless.
It's difficult to find different strains of the "Red" Roselle types. I think there's one type with large calyxes - huge ones.
Any different colored calyx types would be interesting to try out.
The seller I got my new Roselle seeds from, grows them from seed in 6a. So, I suppose these may be adapted to shorter growing seasons.
The yellow isn't roselle, it's mung beans. I'm working on a rainbow colored mung bean grex to be similar to the rainbow colored Azuki and rice bean grexes I'm also working on. It's a little harder (as there are a lot fewer colors of mung beans than either of the others). But, besides they yellow, I've managed to get a line from Iran that has som brown (with a textured skin, no less) and, due to a lucky find in an Indian grocery store, a handful of green with black mottling).
Ideally, I'd like to track down some "gold" and some "jade" as well. Mung beans come in two primary groups, what I call the "major" and "minor" groups. The major have bigger, more rounded seeds, and tend to have a sort of brown cast over the green. So when you get a yellow (which is basically a green where the green has been turned off) the resultant color is sort of a mustard tone.
Minor types have much smaller seeds, which are also usually more squared off and angular. But these also usually DON'T have the brown cast to them, so the green is bright grass green and the yellow is bright canary to gold (you can sometimes find ones where the color is only PARTLY missing, so you get gold ones with a green patch over the embryonic bump)
Jade is the reverse, when it's the yellow pigment that is missing. So far, I've only found it in the minor (though I see no reason a major version couldn't exist). In that case, the seed coat becomes a deep bluish green.
When I am done with THAT, I plan to work on a version with mothe beans, though there there are even fewer colors (basically pale tan down to medium brown, those with black mottling that looks like scribbles, and totally black). Though I may have blown my chance on that one (I don't see scribbled or black seeds in the imported bags anymore like I used to.)
And, with the roselle, yes, it IS hard to find alternate versions. In fact, I'm just glad this version seems to be "pure" green/white. the original version of this I encountered (in Richter's seed Zoo) was a mixture of green, red and everything in between, so I would have had to select hard to get just green plants.
Getting the Ecuadorian Black Roselle is for obvious reasons. If green has NO anthocyanins, black must be SUPERCHARGED with them, and will thus be even better for you. I just wish I knew where to look (trying to contact Joe Simcox would probably be the smartest place to start, but with him constantly gallivanting all over the world in search of new stuff, he's a bit hard to get in touch with.)