As you can see from the photos, these are being grown commercially (in Mexico).
I don't see these very often in the grocery store, so I snagged a bag to try them out.
I like versatility in vegtables!
Very large stipules, the leaflets have been removed.
Looks like a fasciated stem.
Does anyone here know what variety this could be?
Or search terms to use to find more info?
Edit: attachment issues. Sigh. (LOL)
This is a leaf pea. https://vermehrungsgarten.de/node/520
Wow! VERY cool!
At first I thought the thread was going to be about the new Calvin Lamborn Snap-Greens with both tl / af genes. These are just as cool!
No idea on the variety name, but any variety with both p / v genes for low fiber in the pod would be a good candidate for this. Plants with lower fiber in the pods also have lower fiber in the leaves.
The most tender leaved peas in my collection are my "large podded" (A mix of 'Green Beauty', 'Carouby de Maussane', and 'Bijou'). These are the preferred variety by the leaf cutter bees, second favorite is Dwarf Gray Sugar.
You are correct that the stems of these seem to be fasciated. Considering the pink flowers it looks like it was probably bred from Salmon-Flowered or Rosakrone. So this pea has three recessive genes: p / v / & fas or fa (but probably not both)
A possible replicating cross: [Green Beauty x Salmon-Flowered].
Have you thought about trying to place them in a flower vase and coaxing them to stay alive long enough to produce pods and seeds? You might need that special additive that helps keep cut flowers alive longer, but I think it might be possible. I had a pea plant that was nibbled off by a rabbit low to the ground. It became a flower in a vase and lived long enough to produce pods with me changing the water everyday. Nearly made it to seed, but not quite i think.
If you bury them in soil you might be able to coax roots to start so the plant could be saved that way as well. I think worth a try!
Thanks for sharing! Now another pea use i want to try!
I tried a search for "Tao Mei" pea seeds (as shown in your pic), and found another name for pea leaves in Chinese cooking is Dòu miáo.
https://thewoksoflife.com/chinese-ingredients-glossary/chinese-vegetables-asian-leafy-greens/
Sounds to me like you would find some kind of pea leaf varieties in China, since they are a traditional vegetable there.
Searching for Dòu miáo pea seeds, the leaf stage is called "da dou miao" from this post excerpt:
"Pea shoots = Pea vines = Dou miao = Pisum sativum
In Chinese, the two types are distinguished by calling them "large'' and "small'': da dou miao and shao dou miao. Da dou miao, the large shoots, are also sometimes called wan, (late) because they come from the mature pea plant.... "
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1729579/what-is-da-dou-miao-and-xiao-dou-miao
Not seeing any detail on varieties, but seems as though the same varieties are grown for small shoots or large leafy shoots. The leaf stage is said to be more tender than the shoot.
The selection of peas for shoots looks pretty plain and dreary: "field pea" or Dwarf Gray Sugar.
https://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/shoots/field-pea-shoot-seed-3161S.html
More at Kitazawa, but mostly named by seed coat: maple, dun, green, yellow and Arvika. Again the sprout peas are identified as 'field peas' and cover crops.
https://kitazawaseed.com/collections/pea
I have one from Europe called "Serge" which I haven't grown out yet. On the list for this season.
This opens a whole new series of possibilities for fresh green in spring when using winter hardy varieties!
They passed the taste test with flying colours!!!
Just steamed, nothing added. (Now that I know what the base flavour is, I can get creative.)
I have Dwarf Grey Sugar, but haven't tasted the leaves yet.
Dwarf Grey Sugar leaves (stipules) are smaller than the grocery store variety I just ate.
I think my next request from JIC will include lines for "lat" and "ele1".
Joy Larkcom's 'Oriental Vegetables - the complete guide for the gardening cook' includes the following info "Cantonese Dau miu, Japanese Tohbyo. ...Dwarf Grey Sugar and Usui are among those recommended for shoot production."
Quote from: B. Copping on 2022-02-27, 03:38:55 PM
I think my next request from JIC will include lines for "lat" and "ele1".
Great idea! Let me know how that goes and whether you get anything interesting.
I find the fact that ele1 says it also increases pod width very interesting. Wonder what ele1 x lt would do...
https://www.seedstor.ac.uk/search-infoaccession.php?idPlant=24240
https://www.seedstor.ac.uk/search-infoaccession.php?idPlant=26995
JI0840
JI3608
Like I said before, Green Beauty & Carouby de M. or Dwarf Gray Sugar are worth exploring because they have the low fiber genes for pp and vv. If they have pods that "pulverize to dust" then the plant leaves will also have less fiber. These are the only peas in my garden that suffer when we get hail storms. And because the leaves are extra tender the leaf cutter bees find them a favorite too. Very cool though, I never thought about harvesting them for the leaves.
another one - described by a UK site: None of the other companies that sell this mention the leaves.
Opal Creek
Climbing to a magical 6' tall and producing pastel lemon pods which hold their colour better in cooler temperatures. This unique and tasty snap pea also has very sweet and edible leaves and is ideal for growing as baby pea-sprouts in the greenhouse.
Pea leaves are mostly great, especially when young. I've only ever eaten snap pea greens, but it's part of my normal harvest from any variety I'm growing anyhow and I've never noticed off flavours.
Also of interest may be the Parsley Pea, that has tendrils (not particularly parsley-flavoured) designed for eating.
Peace Seedlings http://peaceseedlingsseeds.blogspot.com has also bred a number of hyper-tendril peas.
Most are climbers, but one is a bush. Oregon Hyper-tendril Snow Bush
and a red one
Ruby Beauty HT Snow Vine
After 8 years of breeding and selecting we finally are ready to offer our "red snow pea"! Gourgeous vining plants with yellow and red blushed hyper-tendrils(HT) make delicious red pods turning light burgundy. On a sunny spring day the young pods glow like stained glass in the garden, a sight to behold!
Yes, the new Lamborn bred 'Petite Snap-Greens' are a snap parsley pea with dwarf growth. I imagine being a snap pea they have both the pp and vv fiberless genes. I grew them once but apparently didn't save seeds. :(
I imagine you can have 3 types of edible foliage peas:
parsley types (JI0114 has "very wrinkled" seeds)
large leaf / fasciated types
or hyper-tendril / semi-leafless types
Ruby Beauty is the first commercially introduced red-podded pea. It looks nice but does not taste that good. I'm still working on my red-podded pea because i think i can make a better one! Hoping this is the year!!
Peace Seedlings just released two other new peas: Ruby Crescent and Opal Crescent. I now have seeds, but not sure if i have the room to trial them. Hopefully Opal Crescent is an improvement over the old Opal Creek. I imagine it is.
Anyone know what genes might code for tasty foliage genes other than the fiberless ones?
Tasty foliage genes...don't know of any specifically.
I haven't jumped into that rabbit hole yet.
If one were to test pleiotropic effects, "Garden Sweet" might be a good variety to evaluate.
(Reported to be 25% sweeter)
@Andrew I think "crd" also increases leaf size, but changes the flower structure. This could be of interest to you?
"uni<tac" could be interesting to work with.
It could eliminate the practice of removing the leaflets (the leaflets are too fiberous?)
When I last grew "Joni's Taxi" (2019) I had difficulty with the groundhogs.
They loved it so much they ate the plants three times, "Lincoln" once, and didn't bother the other pea varieties in my garden...
I think I will try some of the foliage when I next grow it.
Quote from: Andrew Barney on 2022-03-03, 03:08:32 PM
I imagine you can have 3 types of edible foliage peas:
parsley types (JI0114 has "very wrinkled" seeds)
large leaf / fasciated types
or hyper-tendril / semi-leafless types
And they aren't mutually exclusive. 😁
I realize that anthocyanin tastes bitter to some people (the look on a fellow gardener's face when she tasted a purple pod I gave her was VERY educational) so it should probably be avoided.
(Purples and greens were segregating in that planting. I couldn't taste any difference between the purples and greens, but that is MY genetics skewing a taste evaluation. 😁)
I wonder what effect "cov" would have?
Here is an Asian source for pea shoots seeds:
https://asiangarden2table.com/product/pea-shoots/
25 days to first pick! That's tempting to me...
Quote from: Andrew Barney on 2022-03-03, 03:08:32 PM
Peace Seedlings just released two other new peas: Ruby Crescent and Opal Crescent. I now have seeds, but not sure if i have the room to trial them. Hopefully Opal Crescent is an improvement over the old Opal Creek. I imagine it is.
I ordered all the peas on their website, and those aren't on it. How did you manage to get them?
Quote from: B. Copping on 2022-03-04, 05:07:08 PM
And they aren't mutually exclusive. 😁
I realize that anthocyanin tastes bitter to some people (the look on a fellow gardener's face when she tasted a purple pod I gave her was VERY educational) so it should probably be avoided.
(Purples and greens were segregating in that planting. I couldn't taste any difference between the purples and greens, but that is MY genetics skewing a taste evaluation. 😁)
I wonder what effect "cov" would have?
My 23andme genetics test says i am a non-bitter taster. I'm also pretty sure that is confirmed to be true as those Phenylthiourea (PTC) Test Paper strips they did way back in my genetics / biology classes didn't bother me when most people said they tasted awful. I should buy some PTC paper from Amazon to test myself again to be sure. Not that I can't taste ANY bitter foods, but I wonder how different my perception is to the next person. I've started having my wife and daughter taste things for me as they both seem to have different reactions than I do sometimes. This was first made clear to me with a yellow-fleshed watermelon. In addition to the bitterness genes I am also one of the rare types that hate the taste of cilantro, so it might be fair to say that I really taste things differently. Perhaps that is why i'm such a picky eater.
Anyway my point was that maybe we should breeding for good taste by polling large groups of people. If it tastes good to me but bad to someone else then that's not so good. If it tastes good to someone else but not to me that is also not so good. If it tastes good to all of us then bingo!
As for the purple pods... yeah there may be other sweetness or bitterness genes that need weeding out to find a good tasting purple or another approach is to just breed super sweet peas and know that there will be some tempering of bitter flavor. New super wrinkled seed phenotypes might be a novel way to approach this. Purple pods don't taste bitter to me per se, but for some people they might, and in general even I usually prefer the yellows and greens. So something to think about for sure.
Quote from: Diane Whitehead on 2022-03-04, 08:22:11 PM
I ordered all the peas on their website, and those aren't on it. How did you manage to get them?
I ordered the Ruby Beauty and Purple Beauty and I think Amethyst Beauty last year and they sent me a printed catalog in the mail this winter. I think they are such new varieties they must not have updated their online blog / list yet.
I was trying to help Gregg look in the Australian GRIN system for some out crossing peas.
Noticed these lines that sounded interesting (have not looked in USDA GRIN database yet).
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=88611 'Shang Ts Ay'
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=122017 HAI YEN
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=122018 'PS 444'
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=121702 L 611
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=88610 G0000046
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=121664 MALAYSIAN-EDIBLE PODDED
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=121665 'BLOM`S SUGAR PEA EDIBLE PODDED'
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=121661 JOANET EDIBLE PODDED
http://52.64.82.164/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=121662 GOLDEN PRINCE-EDIBLE PODDED
These are the lines in the USDA ARS GRIN database that sound interesting to me with mentioning of edible pods. They should also have good edible foliage as well. One has a unique pencil-thin pod shape which looks very interesting. Haven't looked for ones from china yet, but one is from Malaysia. Anything developed by Dr. Marx should be pretty good or interesting. https://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/articles/breeder_Marx.htm
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1198714
Details for: PI 261671, Pisum sativum L., DEGRACE
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1199481
Details for: PI 263027, Pisum sativum L., MANGETOUT CORNE DE BELEIR
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1206545
Details for: PI 275825, Pisum sativum L., G 11254
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1283202
Details for: PI 378157, Pisum sativum L., RED FLOWER NO. 1
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1101804
Details for: PI 635167, Pisum sativum L., 'PURPLE BLOSSOM SUGAR PEAS'
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1472776
Details for: PI 577805, Pisum sativum L., 'SP110-1-2-7-2'
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1070177
Details for: W6 15105, Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum, Marx 013
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1070471
Details for: W6 15186, Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum, Marx 115
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1070575
Details for: W6 15207, Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum, Marx 167
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1070739
Details for: W6 15244, Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum, Marx 213
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1188695
Details for: PI 244093, Pisum sativum L., APOLLO
I bought seeds of Purple Blossom Sugar in 2019 but didn't manage to save any.
They were from a grower who only sells a few of her extra seeds. I've just checked and she has some for sale now, so I'll order some quickly.
Here is her description:
Purple Blossom Sugar – Origin: SSEx Heirtage Farm seed exchange
Grows about 4-5 ft tall. Purple-red flowers. (4-5″ x 3/4″) large curved EDIBLE pods. Most pods carry 5-7 seeds. Seeds are sage green/grey, large, slightly wrinkled with purple spots and splashing. Mid-season producer.
Oh, here is something odd that she has:
One with "FURRY/HAIRY" pods! but it is sold out. Maybe she'll have some more next year.
Quote from: Diane Whitehead on 2022-03-17, 04:45:06 PM
Oh, here is something odd that she has:
One with "FURRY/HAIRY" pods! but it is sold out. Maybe she'll have some more next year.
I have seen that show up on the inside of the pods.
That may be what is being referred to.
Quote from: Andrew Barney on 2022-03-03, 03:08:32 PMRuby Beauty is the first commercially introduced red-podded pea. It looks nice but does not taste that good. I'm still working on my red-podded pea because i think i can make a better one! Hoping this is the year!!
Didn't Joseph Lofthouse have a picture of a red-podded pea that he bred in his book? You might ask him if he has seeds of it.
Quote from: UnicornEmily on 2022-10-23, 01:35:27 AMDidn't Joseph Lofthouse have a picture of a red-podded pea that he bred in his book? You might ask him if he has seeds of it.
Haha, thanks Emily, yes Joseph did have one in his book. He no longer grows it because of heavy pea weevils in his area. Also he is only focused on tomatoes right now and everything else has been curated to EFN the experimental farm network. The red podded pea is not one of them, but the one I'm working on is descended from his line as he originally shared seeds of it with me around 2010.
My line I stabilized it for homozygous red color and it also stabilized into a half-snap pod. I've grown it out at least 10 generations from the original F5 Joseph lofthouse shared with me. I have recently backcrossed it to my nicest tasting purple podded variety and am on the F2 / F3 trying to reselect for red pods with homozygous stabilized color with hopefully better flavor.
Both my line and Ruby Beauty both suffer from poor taste and flavor. Ruby Beauty also does not seem stabilized for pod color as good as my line has been. Fingers crossed I can make progress on my line soon!
Oh, that's cool! I should've figured you were already working with the germplasm he selected. :D
Fingers crossed for you! A red-podded pea that tastes yummy would be very cool. Especially if it tastes yummy in a different and neat way from green-podded peas.
Hey, I wonder if they red comes from lycopene, the carotenoid that makes watermelons and tomatoes red. Joseph said lycopene tastes bitter to him. If so, that might red-podded peas taste bitter to some people, and not to others. Have you had other people taste them? That might be a good way to find out if the flavor that doesn't taste good is the red, or if it's something you can breed out and still keep the color.