As a small number of the Aussies on here are starting our own collaborative attempt at breeding Sweets, it is probably appropriate that we have a thread for our own conditions, rather than mix up others threads causing confusion.
From Member Steve1 on here I have the following
Kumera, Wangmun, Solomon, Japanese, Purple, Ornamental Purple, Northern Star, Okinawan, Red Garnet and American White.
Solomon I think it is may not make it for some strange reason, the others are looking good.
From the local green shed, an orange flesh/skinned variety, probably Beauregard as this makes up 90% of sweets grown commercially here. A white skin purple flesh, most likely WSPF and a purple, not sure about anything else about this, if like previous buys, it will be a purple fleshed, white skinned var.
Have managed to stumble across or be pointed to several other sources of Sweets in Oz, may yet push known to me vars up near 50. Must increase vegetate garden size!!
Hi Whwoz, fellow Aussie here. Interested to hear your results. I've been chasing a deep purple fleshed variety to grow in the veg patch but all I seem to find is WSPF which isn't that flash of a variety. I've grown Beauregard and quite like it's productivity but it's a bit moist - I prefer something a bit drier.
I thought I'd seen about all the color combinations but yet to have one with white skin and purple flesh. Lots have shown up with the opposite of that.
I'm still waiting on a nice purple skin/orange flesh. I'v had a few with that combination but nothing to rave about as far as flavor or production.
Troppo, have you looked on Gumtree? Several people list a purple skinned, purple fleshed var available, there is also the mentioned Okinawan and Hawaiian Purple vars available.
There is also the Queensland sweet potato repository that several of us are going to attempt to source material from next year. you may find the report below of interest.
https://www.horticulture.com.au/globalassets/laserfiche/assets/project-reports/vg09009/vg09009-final-report.pdf
Does anyone know anything about the variety called American White, it is supposed to be a starch variety, any ideas on the best use for these?
Reed, just had a quick look at Sandhills list, there are a couple of white skin, purple flesh var on it, although it looks like not all are available. Do not know who you have dealt with in the past or what other suppliers you may have access to
Most of those I've bought were from Sandhill but I've also sourced some locally. I suspect most local ones are Beauregard or maybe Puerto Rico strains. What I've discovered though is once you start getting seeds you don't necessary need a parent with specific traits in order for those specific traits to show up in your seedlings. For example none of the parent varieties I've used had purple/purple or white/white but offspring with those colors have grown from the seeds.
A very sweet pink one showed up as a clone mutation from a purple/white root. Will that plants seeds be prone to making more sweet pink ones? Who the heck knows?
It also applies to other observable traits. Sweet/not sweet, nice roots/stringy roots, big vines/ bushy vines, green leaves/purple leaves, blooms/don't bloom. It's like all the possibilities are in all of them. It's great fun seeing all the new ones that show up but my primary goal is that they reliably produce nice roots and seeds from seeds in 100 days or less. All the rest is gravy.
I think once you get seeds a lot of new ones that might be worthy of preserving as clones will show up if you want to do that. I've discarded 50 or more of them in last few seasons cause they weren't seedy enough or just because I can't let my whole gardening life and all my storage space be taken over by sweet potatoes. I only keep maybe 1/2 a dozen of the best each year to clone and cross back with the seedlings. Hoping to fortify the traits I like best in the overall grex.
All the best you fella's over there with this project. You have quite a lot of varieties over there.
Quote from: Troppo on 2019-12-19, 03:29:07 AM
Hi Whwoz, fellow Aussie here. Interested to hear your results. I've been chasing a deep purple fleshed variety to grow in the veg patch but all I seem to find is WSPF which isn't that flash of a variety. I've grown Beauregard and quite like it's productivity but it's a bit moist - I prefer something a bit drier.
Hi Troppo,
I'm sure I can send you a few purple fleshed slips. I believe the purple flesh intensity can be driven by environment or in some cases plain genetics. Not sure which ones I have though.
Cheers
Steve1
Quote from: whwoz on 2019-12-19, 12:55:46 AM
Solomon I think it is may not make it for some strange reason, the others are looking good.
One of the two Solomon slips will make it. Those where I have only one I will stike a cutting when the growths are long enough.
Whwoz Okinawan is the same variety as Hawaian Sunshine (White skin/Purple flesh). American White is a commercial starch extraction variety. The most vigorous so far that I've seen. I believe it eats ok, especially if you like the starchy ones.
I believe Purple is a purple fleshed variety and not Okinawan.
There are still more varieties for me to get my hands on - some of which have come from the QLD germplasm repository. I'm starting a new garden this year so 10 was about my maximum for this year.
Northern Star is the Red/Purple Skin/White Flesh FYI.
White Skin / Purple Flesh is an Australian variety, released 2000.
The ornamental SP I have I think might be one Reed used early on (very dark purple leaves) - not sure of the tuber color though. Do you remember Reed? Thanks Reed, just looked at the Aus SP reference above and the local 'Blackie' ornamental version seems to have white skin / white flesh.
Edited to change add descriptions.
Quote from: Steve1 on 2019-12-20, 04:21:10 AM
The ornamental SP I have I think might be one Reed used early on (very dark purple leaves) - not sure of the tuber color though. Do you remember Reed?
Roots on the ornamental were purple skin white flesh and very stringy, no good at all. Some of the others I started with bloomed OK but I think that ornamental one really supercharged blooming in successive generations.
Trade off is half or more of offspring had stringy roots and they still show up from my seeds but ratio is down to maybe 30% now.
It isn't good for food production of course but in our climate plants can be dug up half way through the season, the stringy root ones can be culled or replanted semi-isolated. Doing that and replanting sets back root size but doesn't seem to impact seeds. Actually you don't always have to dig them completely up, a lot of nice root plants can be discovered just by poking around with your bare fingers.
I've got Northern Star slips coming, a purple i got from a nursery last year but i didn't try the roots, and a Hawaiian white skin I bought at a chinese fruit shop a few weeks ago that is just beginning to shoot. If you guys want any, let me know.
Next year I'll be all over this :)
GM
Quote from: reed on 2019-12-20, 03:13:41 PM
Roots on the ornamental were purple skin white flesh and very stringy, no good at all. Some of the others I started with bloomed OK but I think that ornamental one really supercharged blooming in successive generations.
Trade off is half or more of offspring had stringy roots and they still show up from my seeds but ratio is down to maybe 30% now.
It isn't good for food production of course but in our climate plants can be dug up half way through the season, the stringy root ones can be culled or replanted semi-isolated. Doing that and replanting sets back root size but doesn't seem to impact seeds. Actually you don't always have to dig them completely up, a lot of nice root plants can be discovered just by poking around with your bare fingers.
Thanks Reed,
interestingly, the local version seems to have white skin/white flesh at least according to the Aus SP reference listed above. Maybe a mutation. I'll hopefully know more in 4 or so months.
Cheers
Steve
Steve, GM, the orange SP that I have here are starting to kick on and I could take some cuttings off them if you want
Quote from: whwoz on 2019-12-21, 05:15:50 PM
Steve, GM, the orange SP that I have here are starting to kick on and I could take some cuttings off them if you want
Thanks Wwhoz, but I might just see how i go with the ones I've got - not having grown SP before in the ground.
Gregg.
Do any of your available varieties bloom good?
Quote from: whwoz on 2019-12-21, 05:15:50 PM
Steve, GM, the orange SP that I have here are starting to kick on and I could take some cuttings off them if you want
Whwoz, one would be great thanks. When you can.
Cheers
Steve
Quote from: reed on 2019-12-22, 06:41:54 AM
Do any of your available varieties bloom good?
Hi Reed, yep some of them do bloom well. Which ones I dont know (apart from the ornamental), but one of the local uni guys has been maintaining his collection for a number of years and I've seen lots flowering. Some as slips, some as forgotten neglected potbound plants. I'm just trying to get as many in one place as possible with everyone thats interested and see what can be done. There's still more to get but that was all I could handle this year. The coldest November since 1995 and starting a new garden have hindered progress a bit... I'll post more as things start to happen.
Hi whwoz,
Steve told me you may be interested in my efforts with the sp breeding.
Just touching base for now but will post my results on grafting to Ipomoea carnea to induce flowering soon.
Currently doing cuttings of elite Ipomoea carnea that i can share with the group. maybe in a month or 2.
Attached is the article that inspired me to try grating.
Cheers :D
Gidday and Welcome Fon 42. Steve did mention your work with grafting sweet potato, sounds very interesting and I look forward to hearing how they progress.
Have been growing those varieties available through the big green B store for the last couple of years without any flowers.
I have also grown I.aquatica or Kang Kong and had probably 40 to 50 flowers pollinated last year so I know that the local insects are able to pollinate if I can get flowers.
thats an interesting paper, Fon, thanks for putting it up.
How hard is it to graft? Working back from first frost, what would be a timeline for grafting, flowering, crossing, seed development, and harvest?
GM
Hi
I plan to do a post in the next couple of weeks with pics and a brief outline.
There is very little info on the nuts and bolts even in the scientific articles most my efforts this year is to get a baseline.
Grafting is not too hard using a simple wedge graft and will be experimenting with a few other methods if i get time.
Frost is not a big deal hear near the cost but cool temps in April would be the cut off for me.
Day length is the big hurdle so if i can induce flowering before the equinox this would be a major win....especially for next year.
The grafts should start budding by early Feb if all goes well. If not from 22nd of march, that would give a month of flowering.
May have some elite rootstock seeds i could send you this winter.....i suspect you have more room up there in Ballarat to screen a few plants ;)
This is a 2 wk old graft pic attached
Cheers
Karl
(https://imageshack.com/i/pl187CMOj)
Love the graft picture. I'm gonna try some more to graft i batatas with i pandurata but have never done any kind of grafting before. That picture is worth way more than a thousand words in showing me how to go about it. Thanks!
That is what they call a wedge graft Reed.
Nice work Karl. That graft looks good.
The Japanese paper I read some time ago used Ipomea nil and said "The sweetpotato scions form flower buds in 3 weeks after grafting and continue to flower for more than 2 months." (Link below)
I did find a local source for I. nil, but havent yet bought any seeds. Any elite carnea material would be great mate.
Reed, one of the secrets to grafting is a sharp grafting knife. The most important thing is to get the cambium layer of graft and stock to align or match up on at least one side so that it can knit together. Get a bunch of stuff together and have at it. I haven't grafted SP, but I'm guessing keeping the humidity up might be useful while the graft takes - Karl, what did you do post graft?
I went to take some pictures of my patch today but we had fog... Not exactly SP weather.
Cheers
Steve
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313785584_Recent_progress_in_sweetpotato_breeding_and_cultivars_for_diverse_applications_in_Japan/fulltext/58a5c8fc4585150402d58805/Recent-progress-in-sweetpotato-breeding-and-cultivars-for-diverse-applications-in-Japan.pdf
Thanks for that link to the research article, don't think I have that one in my collection. It's -10 here right now so all I can do regarding sweet potatoes is read about em.
Here is a picture of my feeble attempt at a graft, it's a batatas stem on a pandurata root. I used the v shaped corner of a cookie cutter to make matching cuts on each and some scotch tape to hole em together. The pandurata was one that never got transplanted from when I started them in a pot last spring and was being discarded so I decided I'd see what happened. I planted in a pot in a south facing window and the batatas stem stayed alive way longer than I expected.
I think if I pay a little better attention to my technique it might work. I'm trying to make a pandurata x batatas hybrid and hope maybe some gene transfer through a graft will help with that. Batatas stem on pandurata root pollinated by pandurata and vise versa.
Reed, Next time you want to try, do what you have done previously, then grab a sharp knife and push it into the V in the pandurata root about 1/3 of an inch and trim down the sides of the batatas stem over the same distance, could even go down as far as 1/2 and inch if you wanted to, then push the batatas stem into the pandurata root and make sure the cambian layers line up and you shall have your wedge graft. Hopefully the top will survive a lot longer for you that way with better nutrient transfer. Watch out for shoots below the graft level and remove them as soon as you see them otherwise they will draw hte sap flow away from the graft, slowing its growth and maybe even killing it.
Ok here is a summary of what i have done so far :)
Grafting Ipomoea batatas ( sweet potato) to induce flowering
After finding the article on the "inducer" rootstock (Ipomoea carnea) for sweet potato I grew 12 plants keeping the best 4 plants with one plant producing double the flower buds of the rest.
Four rootstocks were grafted in early January 2020 with 100% success rate.
Flowering is expected within a couple of weeks or when day length is 12 hours on the equinox.
The major objectives were to get baselines for practices and plant responses and use elite rootstocks that have been overwintered next season.
Photo rootstock (Ipomoea carnea)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pmjlAcqUj)
Grafting
Wedge grafts were used with a twin/side by side arrangement as the scion was about half the diameter of the rootstock. I used a Scalpel blade to do cuts as the plants are very soft and care needs to be taken with the small stems.
Notice the small size and NO leaves on the scion. Only side buds are require.
(https://imageshack.com/i/pmiPzYMOj)
Grafts were secured with para-film tape. (buy ebay or florist) this is a very stretchy wax tape not paper or plastic.
(https://imageshack.com/i/pl8V77Orj)
Unlike a normal graft these were placed higher on the stem. This is to allow some lower growth of rootstock branches for hormone production (flowering)
After grafting plants are placed in a healing chamber in full shade (no direct sunlight) for 7-10 days. These high humidity chambers can be plastic bottles or even supported plastic bags. Condensation should be visible on the inside.
Healing chambers
(https://imageshack.com/i/pofbItvNj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/poTf1GRyj)
After 10 days the healing chambers can be removed BUT plants must be slowly introduced to full sun over a few days. Tape can be gently remove after active growth is observed.
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnTqQ0nMj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pl187CMOj)
Leaf growth of grafts at about 2 weeks
I will be multiplying the rootstocks to share.
Cheers
Fon :)
Fon42,
Thank you for that description, looking forward to hearing of the results re:flowering when it occurs.
Unfortunately the photos you attached do not show up for me, in the attached snip, I press on the
"Attachments and other options" button, then click on the "choose file" button, ensuring that the attachment meets the size limitations shown. Hope this helps in future.
ok here are the pics again...one pic at a time
the rest
Something funny going on here, when I login through a computer I can't see Fans pick, but on my phone they are there. Weird one that.
Beautiful pictures and well done on your grafting success Fon. Looking forward to seeing them flower for you.
Just an idea: if you graft an easy to grow Ipomoea on a batatas rootstock would the rootstock produce tubers as well? It wouldn`t help with reproduction but it might be an option to produce tuber in an non optimal climate?
Thanks Fon, I'll surely be up for some of that rootstock. I just struck some cuttings from my big white tuber i got from the chinese grocer. Took forever to sprout, even after i picked one with little sprouts emerging when i purchased. Will be interesting to see how it grows over the rest of the season.
And that's an interesting thought ImGrimmer.
GM
Quote from: gmuller on 2020-01-21, 01:12:17 PM
Thanks Fon, I'll surely be up for some of that rootstock. I just struck some cuttings from my big white tuber i got from the chinese grocer. Took forever to sprout, even after i picked one with little sprouts emerging when i purchased. Will be interesting to see how it grows over the rest of the season.
And that's an interesting thought ImGrimmer.
GM
Gregg, can you post a picture of the leaf shape / plant? I think the only all white I have is American White, very vigorous all green leaves. Commercial starch variety in the USA.
Cheers
Steve
Quote from: ImGrimmer on 2020-01-21, 12:28:09 PM
Just an idea: if you graft an easy to grow Ipomoea on a batatas rootstock would the rootstock produce tubers as well? It wouldn`t help with reproduction but it might be an option to produce tuber in an non optimal climate?
Interesting question, my guess is the batatas root stock would still make storage roots. They technically aren't tubers I don't think, not that it really matters.
Is cold the non-optimal condition your concerned? If so it still might not help that much as the roots would also want to be warm, unless maybe you could heat the soil with black plastic or something.
Just checked my sweet potato plants and the ornamental purple leaf is starting to put out some buds, only small at this stage, not seeing any on any of the other varieties.
Quote from: reed on 2020-01-22, 05:56:20 AM
Is cold the non-optimal condition your concerned? If so it still might not help that much as the roots would also want to be warm, unless maybe you could heat the soil with black plastic or something.
Yes that was my second thought. Cold soil might be the biggest problem.
Quote from: Steve1 on 2020-01-21, 06:43:06 PM
Gregg, can you post a picture of the leaf shape / plant? I think the only all white I have is American White, very vigorous all green leaves. Commercial starch variety in the USA.
Cheers
Steve
Steve, pics of the white sweet potato. Has purple bases to the petiole, and purple venation on the under surface.
Quote from: gmuller on 2020-01-21, 01:12:17 PM
I just struck some cuttings from my big white tuber i got from the chinese grocer. Took forever to sprout, even after i picked one with little sprouts emerging when i purchased. Will be interesting to see how it grows over the rest of the season.
The root may have been treated to prevent sprouting. Sweet potatoes are strong enough to overcome that, but it might take a while.
Hi GM
that looks different to the "American white" and "Purple tip white flesh" i have. will be interesting to see what it is.
Here in Victoria tuber formation starts around Christmas so be prepared to over winter the plant indoors if it dosn't tuber up this late in the season.
If u have a greenhouse that may help.
Quote from: fon42 on 2020-01-23, 07:52:56 PM
Hi GM
that looks different to the "American white" and "Purple tip white flesh" i have. will be interesting to see what it is.
Here in Victoria tuber formation starts around Christmas so be prepared to over winter the plant indoors if it dosn't tuber up this late in the season.
If u have a greenhouse that may help.
Fon, can you post some pics of the purple tip/white flesh that I have from you please? As you say definately different to American White. There may be a few of us telling partners we have some lovely new house plants this winter... Do they flower? Sometimes...
Steve
going to catalog all of them when i go up to the parents next week. the ptwf is heart leaf with purple juvenile leaves and dark green mature leaves....its a runner and vigorous.
GM's one reminds me of the Japanese leaf and i think that can be white.
Hi all
This is a great lecture on sweet potato breeding. The nuts and bolts start at about time 28 minutes...enjoy :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdzh0GTSJU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdzh0GTSJU0)
Some photos of the leaves of the different varieties that I have this year. In the file name, B=Bunnings, our local big box store and S1 = Steve1 , member here as source. I have also set up a trellis to try yo encourage flower formation and to prevent runners getting into the tomatoes
Steve1 supplied vars
And the last of Steve1's, unfortunately only Blackie showing buds at this stage
HI Whwoz
Looks like a great list of varieties .......Will post mine list soon.
Looking forward to swapping slips in spring ;)
Fon
PS: i recommend some time in the future we put together a "database" of varieties. something simple with basic traits......i could whip something up in excel and we could put it on a cloud to share for us guys downunder :p
Sounds Good Fon, we need something like that and with our limited number of varieties it would be reasonably manageable.
Attached is the link to a 2014 report evaluating new sweet potato varieties for hte Australian commercial market.
https://ausveg.com.au/app/data/technical-insights/docs/3050844_164290_VG09009%20Final%20Report%20Complete.pdf
Down the track we may want to get ho;d of some of these varieties
Very interesting document :D
Quote from: gmuller on 2020-01-23, 12:57:09 PM
Steve, pics of the white sweet potato. Has purple bases to the petiole, and purple venation on the under surface.
Thanks Gregg. I'll go and eyeball the Japanese in the morning and take a picture and and post. I found my plant of purple tip/white flesh and as mentioned has distinct purple new growth and heart shaped leaves. I'll try and post that too.
Whwoz, for the record both Solomon and Wanmun came to me from Fon.
Fon, I watched about 35 min of the video from the North Carolina Uni guy, and realized all the ornamental SP are all from them too. I think I have located 3 more ornamental types in two different places in Oz. I'll see if I can get hold of them for next year.
I like the trellis whwoz. Looks good. At least we have one SP going to flower...
Trellis is just gate infill mesh held up by steel pickets. Agree, at least one SP going to flower, wonder what the flowering trigger is....
I've got some trellis, might go out and string some up.
As discussed earlier, a couple of pics of varieties from Fon, purple tip / white flesh with distinctive purple new growth, and yellow fleshed. Both these sat in pots quite a while due to other priorities - but in the ground now. Looked at my Ornamental purple "Blackie" and it had a bud on it this morning. Kumera, Wanmun and Okinawan are my largest plants - but no sign of other flowers yet.
My white, a week on.
Certainly kicking on nicely G.
Steve1, I have a problem with the SP you sent labelled as Japanese SP. Two plants were received and they are showing different growth patterns, leaves on one are green, the other has Purple new growths. Any idea as too which is the true Japanese variety
The green leafed version may have a bud forming
Hi whwoz, ok so the Japanese variety from my reference picture is the one with the purple new growth - which matches what I have in the garden here. I'm going to have to have a look and see what the options are for that green palmate leaf tomorrow. Seems to be no anthocyanin on the stem or leaf from your picture. Is the new growth green as well? Apologies if I have mixed them up.
Cheers
Steve
According to pretty good authority they also spontaneously mutate from time to time.
In my experience it's a very interesting and unpredictable species that for an amateur plant breeder exists dangerously close to the edge of a rabbit hole, careful or you might fall in. ;D
Ok, thanks Steve, the green one is green to the tips, will get more photos today, those were taken about 8 last night.
Reed, thanks for that information, could open a can of worms if that happens
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-02-01, 02:36:54 AM
Steve1, I have a problem with the SP you sent labelled as Japanese SP. Two plants were received and they are showing different growth patterns, leaves on one are green, the other has Purple new growths. Any idea as too which is the true Japanese variety
The green leafed version may have a bud forming
Whwoz, had a chat with Fon last night whilst looking through my SP patch. None of mine look like that green one of yours. That, could be due to differing environmental conditions though. But I did supply two sorts of Northern Star and green and purplish one. One of the two Northern Star varieties may have been mislabeled in the nursery when I got the slips. Could you go eyeball your Northern Star and see if you have two sorts?
Cheers
Steve
From memory, only 1 Steve. Currently at work, will check when I get home.
Definitely only one Steve. It has heart shaped leaves.
Whwoz
Going over to check mine this week so will put together some pics ....this overall shot is all i've got.....Jap is 2nd in from the top right corner.
i will list names when i do pics
first pic 7 Jan and the second is 16 Jan
(https://imageshack.com/i/plKDQVeQj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/plkAPsmfj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pofDjmy6j)
mud map is hard to read but may help
Cheers :)
Thinking that I will just refer to them as Japanese green leaf and Japanese Purple leaf for now. The roots will have the final say.
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-02-03, 01:36:52 AM
Thinking that I will just refer to them as Japanese green leaf and Japanese Purple leaf for now. The roots will have the final say.
Fair enough whwoz. Again sorry. I looked up the list i sent with the package, as I had a picture and I packed Japanese right before Northern Star. For extra confusion, the green Northern Star appears to have started heart shaped and gone palmate. This is also evident on the picture i took when i collected the slips - where the newest leaves were looking palmate. The heart shape leaf business on some varieties may just be juvenile foliage.
Ok here is a photo shoot of my varieties
(https://imageshack.com/i/poyAGc1Sj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pm24xfWJj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnWcYxrSj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/poBvnY4rj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/po6pWlMEj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pmJxn6BSj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/plRYjeBmj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnM6DBTjj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnyBac3Fj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pm4Jxxgqj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/plIITmujj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/plFHABIPj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/plq9EXyCj)
Looking good Fon.
Giving the elevation promotes flowering theory a good test this year, have extended the mesh the full width of the SP bed, but I am wondering if the crazy season we are having is working against me here.
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-02-15, 04:21:54 AM
Looking good Fon.
Giving the elevation promotes flowering theory a good test this year, have extended the mesh the full width of the SP bed, but I am wondering if the crazy season we are having is working against me here.
From what I understand whwoz, hormones are a large part of the puzzle - which is why big SP breeding programs graft to ornamental flowering morning glory species. The flipside to this is genetic load or the accumultion of deleterious mutations (which are really part and parcel of clonal vegetative crops and in one paper I read referred to as part of the domestication process of clonal crops) that that affect the ability of the plant to flower - perhaps by inhibiting these hormones.
The third question is does growing from slips affect hormone production and flowering. I have considered doing a study comparing slip vs tuber plants and flowering over multiple years to nut this out. It's interesting at least on the surface that the NZ SP's that have flowered so much more than ours have been overwintered as house plants and also likely well advanced in terms of maturity. And finally there is the environment. Heat is likely to have a role here - perhaps in hormone production too.
My ornamental SP has buds that are getting bigger but none I can see on any other variety, but here we have had cool weather, lots of fog and rain. The Solanum potatoes are doing well though...
These are just my thoughts, I'd be keen to hear any others...
Hi
I've not heard of the elevation or Tuber theory before only that daylength and hormones play a big part. also stressing the plant to near death sometimes works with other species. That said whwoz i'm trellising mine for convienience and will try a method used in fruit trees were they bend the branch at 45 deg or even downward to accumulate more hormones.
%20Bending%20Shoots%20Stimulates%20Flowering%20and%20Influences%20Hormone%20Levels%20in%20Lateral%20Buds%20of%20Japanese%20Pear.pdf]file:///C:/Users/Karl/Downloads/[23279834%20-%20HortScience]%20Bending%20Shoots%20Stimulates%20Flowering%20and%20Influences%20Hormone%20Levels%20in%20Lateral%20Buds%20of%20Japanese%20Pear.pdf (http://file:///C:/Users/Karl/Downloads/%5B23279834%20-%20HortScience)
i can now report i have my first flower buds but on the northern star. the other varieties show no signs yet.
(https://imageshack.com/i/pl9Xtcgdj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnJ2Qc17j)
Going to Muirs n sons Monday and will be checking out "biostimulants" at the very least it "seems" cysteine and zinc play a big role in flowering. need to check if this is just hype
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAZyBp6yJsU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAZyBp6yJsU)
Cheers :D
Quote from: fon42 on 2020-02-15, 02:11:43 PM
Hi
I've not heard of the elevation or Tuber theory before only that daylength and hormones play a big part. also stressing the plant to near death sometimes works with other species. That said whwoz i'm trellising mine for convienience and will try a method used in fruit trees were they bend the branch at 45 deg or even downward to accumulate more hormones.
%20Bending%20Shoots%20Stimulates%20Flowering%20and%20Influences%20Hormone%20Levels%20in%20Lateral%20Buds%20of%20Japanese%20Pear.pdf]file:///C:/Users/Karl/Downloads/[23279834%20-%20HortScience]%20Bending%20Shoots%20Stimulates%20Flowering%20and%20Influences%20Hormone%20Levels%20in%20Lateral%20Buds%20of%20Japanese%20Pear.pdf (http://file:///C:/Users/Karl/Downloads/%5B23279834%20-%20HortScience)
i can now report i have my first flower buds but on the northern star. the other varieties show no signs yet.
(https://imageshack.com/i/pl9Xtcgdj)
(https://imageshack.com/i/pnJ2Qc17j)
Going to Muirs n sons Monday and will be checking out "biostimulants" at the very least it "seems" cysteine and zinc play a big role in flowering. need to check if this is just hype
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAZyBp6yJsU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAZyBp6yJsU)
Cheers :D
Is that a grafted one Fon??
First flower, 13'c this morning after 50mm of rain. Not to mention the wind.
Steve, glad to see you have a flower, the buds on mine don't seem to be developing further, which is frustrating but life, not much I can do about it
Fantastic Steve. Wouldnt mind some of your rain, only had 18mm this year so far.
no buds or flowers on mine. Next year, maybe.
gregg
Quote from: Richard Watson on 2020-02-19, 10:13:21 PM
Fantastic Steve. Wouldnt mind some of your rain, only had 18mm this year so far.
Richard, I'd be happy to swap you some of the 200 odd mm of rain from the last month for some sun and heat? It's weird when you get a long stretches of 17-20'c in Feb. I hear its pretty droughty in NZ, particularly Auckland - is that right?
Quote from: Steve1 on 2020-02-20, 08:45:46 PM
Richard, I'd be happy to swap you some of the 200 odd mm of rain from the last month for some sun and heat? It's weird when you get a long stretches of 17-20'c in Feb.
Been the other way around here early summer then turned dry and warm, the average max this year would be running around 27deg
Quote from: Steve1 on 2020-02-20, 08:45:46 PM
I hear its pretty droughty in NZ, particularly Auckland - is that right?
Yep, but it seems to becoming more common for the far north, normal for my eastern side of the alps.
Quote from: gmuller on 2020-02-20, 03:04:54 PM
no buds or flowers on mine. Next year, maybe.
gregg
Don't give up hope yet Gregg. It's slim but we'll see. Another mate I gave some slips too, ornamental purple flowering - but nothing else.
I did drop by Uni the other day where I got a number of the other slips, and he has 4 other varieties in flower/bud now. Not sure what they are as they were unlabelled and he wasn't around to ask at the time. Further investigation there, and hopefully more genetics for next year. My patches of Okinawan, Kumera and Wanmun are large, the others not so much as they were planted later, but with the eqinox coming we can at least see what might be short day.
What is daily temp range right now in your part of the world?
For me Reed, looking at it mean min 15.7'c and mean max 23'c. A couple of nights sub 10'c over the last few days and 8 days over 25'c so far for the month. Has been foggy here too at times. It was warm and sunny today though...
Steve, I've put up a short trellis, so we will see if a bit of elevation works - most of the plants trailing on the ground tho.
Great Gregg, at least it should save your back looking for the buds.
Just found an interesting paper from Japan (1977) looking at the effects of Gibberelins on flowering in SP.
For me the salient points from this paper were mostly summarised on p255
1) Field grown plants didn't flower
2) Short day photoperiod is necessary to induce flowering
3) GA's do increase flowering in SP under short day conditions.
4) Fall grown cuttings flower much easier than summer grown cuttings (even under short day photoperiod conditions) - and I think this one is likely key looking at Richards overwintered SP's and how much flowering they have in NZ.
Whilst there is genetic variability in SP's, as demonstrated by the ornamental purple leaf which is flowering now - this probably demonstrates why ours are generally dragging their feet.
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jsbbs1951/27/3/27_3_251/_pdf/-char/en
I think the extremely high variability of all traits in sweet potatoes is key, it overrides all other aspects. A mistake I made in reading a lot of the papers and research available is assuming that what applied to one collection of germplasm applies similarly to the whole species but that isn't so. Instead of saying "sweet potatoes" authors should say "the sweet potatoes in our work".
That doesn't mean the findings in that paper don't apply to your experience, just that it isn't cut in stone that it does.
One thing I saw though, scrolling up on that paper, it said concerning non-flowering
Quotetrouble has been eliminated by grafting to impomea species that do not produce storage roots
That caught my eye cause of the time I had that hydroponically grown plant that made no storage roots but bloomed profusely. Growing in water might be worth a try to induce flowers. Maybe too try digging them up and removing the big roots and replanting, I know for sure that the ones I have just keep growing and blooming when I do that but of course they were blooming already.
Ok, so some good news. Firstly, I have buds on what was an unnamed bench scrap which I think I confirmed yesterday as Evangeline (daylength neutral). Also, I have another ornamental (also daylength neutral) purple heart shaped leafed SP in flower which was kindly given to me by Chris who has also been very generous in giving me lots of other varieties I've shared.
Also of note is that in discussions with Chris, I suggested I thought there should be more action on the flowering front and he commented that no, in general most of what he has are short day flowerers around the autumn equinox, with the exception of the ornamentals and Evangeline. I really need to get a list going and work out all the day neutral cultivars he has.
Anyway, with Fon having Northern Star budding, Evangeline and two ornamentals flowering we might have a crack. Fingers crossed for warm weather.
I've got some GA3 in the fridge - I could take a few stem cuttings and try them in the polytunnel overwinter. could hook up the heat bed, too.
G
Seriously thinking about floating a few in the dam - strike some cuttings in 4 inch pots and suspend off pump float to see if that serves to replicate Reed's effort hydroponically. will probably need to watch out I don't just feed the ducks.
Quote from: Steve1 on 2020-02-24, 04:54:23 PM
and I think this one is likely key looking at Richards overwintered SP's and how much flowering they have in NZ.
Just remembering that they do vary wildly, one of my clones kicked the bucket as soon as the daylight hours became short, while one other thrived over winter, (must go and look up which one that was)
I have just found my swee potato flower, on the ornamental but still a flower!!
congrats!....hopefully we will all see some flower action in the next few weeks
Set up about 14 slips in pots in float on the dam today, will get photos shortly
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-03-10, 02:45:53 AM
I have just found my swee potato flower, on the ornamental but still a flower!!
Nice whwoz! It's slowly happening.
Wandered over to the vege patch tonight and Evangeline had flowered today and suprisingly to me so had the Okinawan (only a single flower) and the two ornamentals. Slowly, there is a bit of momentum.
Pasted some pollen around and now we wait.
Way to go Steve, I had a few minutes for a quick squiz at the SP today, found half a dozen on the ornamental, but most were well hidden by growth from other plants. I am going to have to allow a lot more room next year between plants, like about 2 meters just so that I can see flowers. Plants in the dam look good, photo tomorrow.
First up, the floating Sweet Potatoes in the Dam. Terracotta pots are there to provide weight to balance the float underneath the plastic pallet, float is 90 mm PVC pipe glued into a square. SP slips are individually placed into 75mm pots around edge, with two slips in a 125mm square to round pot in the middle. Not interested in tubers here, just looking to see if I can replicate Reeds effort at producing flowers. Pallet is balance so that bottom 1 inch or so of each pot is in the water
And a few photos of the main bed, showing growth, going to have to clear the paths out of weeds sometime soon and need to lift runners again to stop the rooting in. Trellis is working to keep runners out of tomatoes as long as I lift them up roughly once a week, not seeing any flowers there at this stage.
looks good whwoz ....should get a good crop of tubers.
hoping to see more flower buds on the grafted sp soon. will keep you poster
cheers
Well done whwoz, those sweet potatoes look great, and I reckon you will get a good crop as well. Mine are ok for such a cool season in a first year bed. That clover is my main weed (which I leave if not to close to the plants) says something about the lack of soil nitrogen.
Interestingly, today there are buds on Matt's Purple Flesh which came from Fon later than the others. I thought it might be Okinawan as the leaves are similar shape but the Okinawan I have has a long flower stalk and this is short. The leaves most resemble Kumera / Japanese. Will still be a week or two at least before it flowers.
Thanks Steve1, last time I grew sweet potato in that soil was the first time I had grown them, from memory 8 kg from 2 plants, so yes, hoping for a good crop. Still not seeing a lot of flowers, hence the floaters.
Re clover, when you next pull one out, check the roots, if nodules are present you have nitrogen fixing going on, if no nodules, no nitrogen fixing occurring. Clover by itself does not fix nitrogen, requires Rhizobium bacteria.
Good to hear about the different varieties flowering, makes me wonder if my soil to high in N.
I have lots of wood chips and use them in my growing. I do it cause it's easy for me, not to control nitrogen but I guess it could have influence on flowering.
I need to figure that out some day, another controlled experiment I don't have time for right now.
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-03-19, 02:51:51 AM
Thanks Steve1, last time I grew sweet potato in that soil was the first time I had grown them, from memory 8 kg from 2 plants, so yes, hoping for a good crop. Still not seeing a lot of flowers, hence the floaters.
Re clover, when you next pull one out, check the roots, if nodules are present you have nitrogen fixing going on, if no nodules, no nitrogen fixing occurring. Clover by itself does not fix nitrogen, requires Rhizobium bacteria.
Good to hear about the different varieties flowering, makes me wonder if my soil to high in N.
I can only speculate that N may be part of it. All the legumes I planted last year (as part of the green manure) including the clovers were innoculaed with the right rhizobia. Some clovers are doing better than others, but good point - I'll go look for pink nodules.
The flip side of all this is that I probably wont get the SP yield you will whwoz.
Fairly quite here at work at the moment, so have been surfing to see if I can find anything relating to SP flowering and came across this again
https://www.lsuagcenter.com/portals/communications/publications/agmag/archive/2009/spring/breeding-highyielding-delicious-sweet-potatoes
from the Louisiana Agricultural Experiment Station, which is where I first got the idea that flowering can be promoted by trellising. Obviously a lot more to it than just winding the up a frame as mine have not flowered yet despite some being elevated for over 2 months so far. Not finding anything that relates to N levels enhancing flowering either. Indeed comments on flowering of SP's seems to be thin on the ground and nearly as common as SP flowers in my garden atm!!
Thinking ahead to next year, I want to look at getting cuttings going in dam as early as possible, may actually be able to keep the ones in there going over winter if frosts not to bad, multiple ropes will allow me to position float where I want it and will remove some weights once roots get a reasonable length on them. Need to try fully elevating a plant or two of each variety, even if it means trimming some of the branches. I have several soil types available to me, need to experiment with planting in them and also look at the effect of adding tree trimmings (well composted and maybe some not so well composted) to the soil to try manipulating N levels. Not sure what else to try.
I've never seen that trellising promotes flowers but it certainly makes it easier to collect seeds.
Reed, I suspect that like a lot of the things that you have found out about SP, its variety dependent. Those referred to in that article were probably wild selections that by chance flowered better raised. Still a lot of unanswered questions regarding flowering in my mind
Yea, I think you are probably right.
Not sure about N levels, but I reckon heat spikes set off mass flowering and seed development, just a casual observation from a newbie.
I run my gardens kinda lean, sheep shit pellets only at planting. 3 out of 4 types flowered and set seed: 2 camotes that had come from reed via Richard Watson, and one, my own native NZ 'mutation'. Okinawan did not fire. Might get a couple hundred seed, already 100 some, in the drawer. Hope that helps in some way?
What is your summer weather like Chris, ours is typically hot without any real spikes. If the heat builds it generally does so after a cold front has gone through. Think maximum temperature dropped to 20C, it then builds up by 4 degrees each day back upto the mid 30's here, where it generally sits until the next front moves through. The really hot 40+ days are generally wind driven, with hot air being blown out of the centre over us.
Reed is your summer weather consistent or more up and down and what temperatures do you normally get to.
Another thought, do either of you have any idea of the length of bright light (excluding twilight) you have on a summers day
whwoz, as we are an Island, vs both you and reed have continental climates, ours varies much more, but where I am we have more sun less rainfall than the rest of NZ. It is an area renowned for its vineyards, orchards and cropping - Hawkes Bay.
I found the first 2 seed pods after a hot spell in early Jan, then we went cool, low 20's, so no action for 3 weeks, despite good flowering.
Then boom, heat again 30+ from early Feb, and the seeding went nuts. Now cooled back down to low 20s, and much cooler nights, so I do not expect anymore seed pods (although still 100 odd on the vines drying off). Google Havelock North 4130 NZ to see our weather chart?
Thanks Chris, will check out your suggestion re:weather
Here it can stay around 30 to 35 for two or three months but it is getting so weird. July, August are generally hottest but in 2018 we had a period with highs little over 20 and damp in August, it ruined lots of seeds. In 2017 it stayed in the 30 -35 range into November.
Just generally, warm dry is good for seeds, damp cool isn't. Mine do seem to keep setting seed even when it starts getting cooler so long as it also stays dry. I haven't measured how weather effects food production but I've never had a serious crop failure.
I expect in coming seasons some will be good for seeds and some bad, last year was very good. But in a good year you get lots and they stay viable a long time so always have that backup.
I'm sure you have to have that 30Cdeg + to set seed, when eastern North Island had the Fed hot spell Chris had plenty of flowers open, the South Island the heat was only in the inland valleys like where I am, but during that heat I had yet to reach good flowering stage, the flowers came once it cooled down. The summers of the last ten years have not been as warm as the 2000's when we had much longer periods of heat.
You might be right but I'm not wholly convinced. Dry and sunny seem to be key rather than just heat. I have on occasion found mature seeds on plants I had discarded after harvesting the roots even after frosts. They may be source of some the volunteers I'm seeing now. And I often seed set continuing well after cooler fall weather has arrived.
I won't say much of anything for sure though, except in my patch cloudy wet is counter to seeds, they don't set in those conditions especially if it's cool. Wet is bad even if hot, they can rot or sprout inside the capsule.
Then there are lots of other variables probably between different places and the great BIG variable of them being so variable. The term homozygous doesn't begin to describe it I don't think.
Had long period of dry and sunny weather here after early Feb but no real heat.
Here in eastern Victoria, December was hot and dry, then came the fires, turned everything smoky, then the rain arrived in January and February. 275 mm or 11 inches. March has been considerably dry, be lucky to get 40 mm but very overcast. Temps here have probably been 6 or 7 C below average. The bulk of what I am growing is the same clones as the last three years and I suspect that I need to radically change something to get them to flower here. As long as we don't severe a frost I think the plants on the dam, which already have roots coming out of the pots will stay over winter. The current lot were just random selections, will set up a second pallet with labelled plants when I harvest roots to try to jump start next season.
That great variablity that Reed keeps mentioning seems to keep rearing it's head in a non helpful way at the moment
Well, back on the fertility theme, I am growing in near neutral pH, maybe 6.8, thanks to our clay pan (it is slightly sloped hill side garden)
I always look at pH rather than other indepth analysis, which can confuse and be wildly inaccurate imho.
We grow a lot of garlic, and I have learned the closer to neutral the better - maybe similar for SP flowering?
Be interested to know pH of your guys soils.
An interesting thought Chris, had not considered that. I suspect that the pH of the soils I am growing in would be down around 5.5 using a standard 2:1 soil:calcium chloride solution. Any idea what method used for your 6.8 result? I have a powder based test kit and will check over next day or two.
It's limestone country here, P retentive, and ~ high pH generally, in the hills, different on the plains, but yes I see it in indicator plants like lettuce, and solanaceae, they do not grow well without Flours of Sulphur,,, citrus like wise, and avocado's too, struggle.. Garlic/Alliums and SP seem to enjoy the neutrality. 5.5 seems hell low to me, Blueberry country?
5.5 not to bad for our soils, in some regions pH can get down to 4. Likewise we have some areas that are limestone rich where soil pH can get over 8. Soil that I grow in are predominantly imported as local silt just locks up in summer, think concrete, in winter water table is above ground level. The sand which I grow in is typically around the pH 5 to 6 level, which is good for nutrient availablity across most nutrients. Drainage is good and easy to keep moisture levels up pumping from the dam
While overseaing some prep work for what will be a 25 x 14 meter extension to the vegetable garden, I eventually opened my eyes after walking past the SP several times and found, not one but 4 flowers on the Beaurgard plants. While photographing the flowers for posterity, I noticed a number of bees about. Two honey bees flew past, not stopping and several native bees stopped and checked it out. One was very interested and spent a couple of minutes inside the flower, crawling out covered in pollen!! That bee then crawled into the next flower, so I should find out if Beauregard is self-compatable or not. Photos to follow
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-03-27, 02:53:10 AM
While overseaing some prep work for what will be a 25 x 14 meter extension to the vegetable garden, I eventually opened my eyes after walking past the SP several times and found, not one but 4 flowers on the Beaurgard plants. While photographing the flowers for posterity, I noticed a number of bees about. Two honey bees flew past, not stopping and several native bees stopped and checked it out. One was very interested and spent a couple of minutes inside the flower, crawling out covered in pollen!! That bee then crawled into the next flower, so I should find out if Beauregard is self-compatable or not. Photos to follow
Whwoz thats good news on the Beauregard front. Is the ornamental still flowering?
I had a soil test done here last December, and the pH was 4.9. I haven't really attempted to ammend it with the exception of some mushroom compost.
I've also got one of the ornamentals flowering as a houseplant and am using pollen from the garden. I may take cuttings of the others that have multiple flowers on different stems to see if that might get me some seed set. Getting too cool outside now.
Steve I cannot say if the ornamental is still flowering, could not see any but there is an absolute mass of leaves there.
pH of 4.9 probably a bit low, you may start seeing the effects of Iron deficiency soon, would suggest plenty of lime, if you can get crushed limestone, will help stabilize over longer term as well.
flowers, showing the main stem with two or three clusters on it, then a close up of one cluster
Now for the interesting photos, a group of five showing the bee coming out of one flower and then heading down into the other flower next to it. The best progress that I could have hoped for but I was expecting it to fly after coming out of the first flower otherwise I would have a shot of it crawling around the rim of the first flower. It was definitely well covered in pollen. Hope you like them
Checked today, no flowers on Beauregard and at least one on the ornamental grr....
Interesting markings on that bee, is it a native?
Quote from: Richard Watson on 2020-04-02, 12:25:31 PM
Interesting markings on that bee, is it a native?
I assume so Richard, I don't know a lot about our native bees and as far as I am aware, the only introduced bee we have around here is the honey bee.
Finally had two different varieties out in flower together today, the ornamental and Beaurgard, just a pity that the day was cool, overcast, and with the odd shower. No pollinators active and highly unlikely that pollen would take if attempted by hand
Found buds on one of the Japanese clones today, if I have the plants correct. Flowers on the Beaurgard did not take. Thinking I will take slips off each variety as I harvest and pot them up and float on the dam over winter, as long as we don't have severe frosts they will survive and I can get a jump start next season. With the ongoing expansion of the vegetable garden here (25 x 14 m), I will have room for two rows, one lot I will try to water stress to see that enhances flowering
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-04-14, 03:32:15 AM
Found buds on one of the Japanese clones today, if I have the plants correct. Flowers on the Beaurgard did not take. Thinking I will take slips off each variety as I harvest and pot them up and float on the dam over winter, as long as we don't have severe frosts they will survive and I can get a jump start next season. With the ongoing expansion of the vegetable garden here (25 x 14 m), I will have room for two rows, one lot I will try to water stress to see that enhances flowering
And what would be heavy enough of a frost to kill them ya reckon
Only takes a very light frost to put a stop to sweet potatoes.
A link with some interesting reading from the Sweet Potato industry in Australia
https://www.aspg.com.au/past-projects/
Still to harvest my SP's. I need to get it done but home schooling the kids thanks to Covid19 is killing my time
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-05-08, 07:14:19 PM
A link with some interesting reading from the Sweet Potato industry in Australia
https://www.aspg.com.au/past-projects/
Still to harvest my SP's. I need to get it done but home schooling the kids thanks to Covid19 is killing my time
Ditto, home schooling eh. After the belting of rain we had last night I need to harvest soon. Yes, the plan with the pH is to get some rock dust from a recommended local supplier. When COVID allows.
Managed to find 5 minutes to start harvesting the sweet potato today. A very light frost this m morning has tickled up a few tops a bit. Those in the dam still look good by comparison.
Only managed to get enough time to dig 4 of the "Beauregard" SPs, these have a redder skin than what I was expecting. Maybe Evangeline?
Tops measured roughly 2.5m/8 feet long and Weighed one cluster of roots, 3.2 kg/ 7 lb or just over, roughly 28lb or 12kg from the 4 if looks are any guide. Roots weighed were from the plant that flowered the best, about 10 pieces of that plant floating in dam now.
Photos taken and will be posted shortly
Sounds like a great yield! I have wondered what a good yield per plant might be. I'm sure mine are not yielding as much as they might because the way I grow them has so far been for maximum number of plants and selection for being seedy. Small pots or over crowded in the ground and little attention to meeting optimal soil or water conditions.
I'm looking forward to arriving at point I can declare that phase complete or at least generally so and start paying more attention to learning how to maximize yield.
Reed, I have heard of some linker roots weighing up over 10 lb, not the sort of roots that I want.
Dug three more orange ones today, 2, 4.5 and 5.5 kg or roughly 4.5, 9, and 11 lb under them. The longest runners have been 2.7m/9 feet.
Dug one Purple flesh, white skin plant today as well 7 roots under it, four small and three around one foot long. Growth around 8 feet long
Aw no, those giant ones are no good at all. I call them clunkers. I've see some where you have to dig a giant hole just to get them out of the ground and still lots end up broken or chopped up by the shove. Ideally I would like to see about a dozen or more per plant, each weighing about a 1/4 lb or so.
Agree re clunkers: whatever you call them, just to big. Size wise, personally, consider that single serve for a family of four is what I want, so somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 pound each, with odd one up to a pound ok. Number of roots per plant: probably seven or eight at that size. Understand smaller size as single serve. I also need to start a harvesting plan that gets them out of the ground when the weather is more suitable for curing them.
The clunkers would be ideal for chipping/processing, imho.
SP Fries are showing strong growth vs french fries, for obvious reasons.
All about yield per plant for process cropping, so I would not ditch a plant doing 4~5kg at 2 x 2~2.5kg clunkers
Thoughts?
Chris, agree with you in principal about the clunkers being good for processing, however the problem with clunkers is that they are not a standard size and more particularly shape. In a commercial processing operation where everything is machine cut, it is not possible to have a machine that can needs to be adjusted for every root that is different in size and shape, then there is the problem of peeling roots that spiral around where one does not want peel preventing use in soup or puree.
I have summerised my season to date below:
Orange ex Bunnnings: Beauregard is what I thought that these were, but they appear to be a bit redder than last year so they may be Evangeline, need to define the differences more in my head to be sure.
Either way the nine plants were very productive, between 2 and 5.5 kg per plant roughly. Have not weighed all the roots, but based on approx. 3 kg per plant, yield = 27kg or around 59lb. Have just spent some more time on web, it would appear that Evangline has reddish new growth, Beaugread green. If that holds true I have Evangline.
Purple Skin white Flesh ex Bunnings: These are probably Northern Star. Produced roots upto 1kg est. Best yield around 4 kg, to be checked by weighing.
Purple ex Bunnings: Yet to be dug. Suspect these to be Okinawa or similiar based on leaf
From Steve1
Purple: Small plant approx. 1 meter long, may well have been smothered by others around it. No roots
Okinawa: these have the same growth as the purple from Bunnings, and maybe the same variety. Growth up to 1.75m long, no roots
Red garnet: Another that may have been a bit smothered, only small plant to 1m long. Two small roots, should be enough for slips, but not for eating.
Kumera: Stems long - 3m or there abouts. Only fine stems approximately 5mm in diameter. 3 or 4 small roots, lucky to 1 kg in total.
Blackie: The ornamental variety, lots of developing buds and sign of spent flowers, but no sign of seed pods, Only 0.75m stems but long leaf petioles so still easily seen. No roots.
Wanmun: Beast of a plant. Runners 3m plus, 12 to 15 mm thick. Long roots with no real storage roots developed. Roots thickened in places.
Northern Star, White fleshed, Purple shinned roots, best to around 1 kg est. Went in later than that from the B store so not as many roots as PSWF above but otherwise similar all round.
American White: Two roots of similar size, roughly 250mm long by 50mm diameter at thickest. White Skinned, white fleshed. Tops to 2 m.
Solomon: Thin runners to 2 m, only a few very thin roots that were not worth keeping even for slips – just too thin, would shrivel up to next to nothing.
Japanese : Two types here as suspected by steve1 after earlier comments. One typical Northern Star roots, so treated as such as it was considered the likely mix up partner, the other was a white Skinned, white fleshed root to 300 mm long and 60mm thick. Stems about 2.5m long.
Not sure why so many from Steve failed to make roots, other than they went in later than those from the B store and I suspect that some may need longer season than was provided this year
All of these have had at least 7 cuttings taken, with most floating on the dam. Ran out of room in float setup so a few under hard, clear cover until I can get another float set up built. The following links were some I came across while trying to sort out the B vs E situation and may prove useful to some.
https://jhawkins54.typepad.com/files/effect-of-cultivar-selection-spacing-on-sweet-potato-production-nair.pdf
https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2916&context=farms_reports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sweet_potato_cultivars
https://simplifygardening.com/sweet-potato-slips/
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/sweet-potato/sweet-potato-varieties.htm
Added 18/5/20
Great summary there whwoz.
Re Clunkers: If you look at the last pic I posted on the NZ page here, the clunker on the scales and the 2 behind it, are all my mutant 'EFR' which, 2nd year in, presents large (1kg+), mainly uniform roots, in my conditions. Richard got a lesser sized result, but still similar uniformity. These would be as simple as spuds to process imho. They also appear to have very few 'eyes'. They are incredible sweet to eat, and yet firm. Possibly too sweet for fries, as sugar burns? Anyways, having been involved with process veg previously, I agree with all your points, but reckon we could breed an 'ezy peel' clunker - I certainly won't be tossing them.
Chris, Clunkers like those you pictured could well have machinery adapted for them, agreed. Some of those that are not so regular, which is more what I was thinking about, would be difficult, particularly curly ones.
Further to the SP report above, dug all the purples from Bunnings today, some nice roots under them, but all between 300 and 500mm or 12 to 20 inches away from plant stem. Lots spiked with the fork unfortunately. If I grow this one again, it will be in a pot I can tip to empty to find the roots, be much easier than trying to dig them at double fork depth.
Yes Okinawan did this to me, this year. Thought there was nowt, but in fact a good crop 'deep and wide'. Hopeless really, most fork damaged and many probably remain unharvested! Shame as they are a great eater. Pots only for those from now on. And they did not flower, except for very early in the piece.
I have those big cattle feed tubs that I cut good sized drain holes in. One time I couldn't lift one to dump it out, dug out a lot of the dirt still couldn't lift it. Finally it let go with a audible snapping sound. In the bottom was about 2 pounds of sweet potato, under it was the other 2 pounds of the same sweet potato. It had grown through the drain hole and anchored the pot to the ground. The top of it was a foot or more deep inside the tub. I strongly select against those kind but that one bloomed and seeded a lot so I'm sure I'll see that again.
I don't think that growing in pots will help to contain the roots or eliminate the clunkers if a plant is prone to making them. They will just grow off the root under the pot or shatter the pot. I've also seen large roots that did stay in the pot but lifted their tops and the vines up out of it.
Growing in pots though is a good way to identify those that have my preferred "clump root" habit, several nice sized roots directly under the main stem and not very deep.
I have a number of 33 liter (8,7 US gallon) tubs that I can drill holes in the bottom of for growing those varieties that spread there roots out. Like you Reed, I do not think there is any real advantage in using that sort of root development genetics in a breeding program, but then I need to get them to flower first! Thinking more of controlling where the roots spread so that one does not ruin half the crop digging it. Will be locating the holey tubs on concrete blocks and 8x2 sleepers so that the roots will be well clear of the ground and will harvest simply by tipping them out. Have put feelers out to see if I can get confirmation of varieties of purchased plants.
I'm in Australia and doing a little work with sweet potato. I had a big collection of varieties many years ago but found our local cracking clay soil made weevil damage too significant to keep growing them. I have started growing a seedy diverse mix of sweet potato recently and should have some slips available to send to some serious growers in the group. They are flowering about 4 months from seed as very small plants still in pots. Hand pollination doesnt seem to be yielding seed set, but it is winter here already and quite cold. I am more interested in breeding other diploid Ipomoea species, but I will do another post on them.
S. Simonsen, would be very interested in getting some of these slips off you in several months. At this stage will be away in September so will be aiming for slip arrival in early October
Whwhoz- definitely keen to distribute material to other sweet potato breeders since I don't think this seedy line is in circulation in Australia yet. Should be big enough for slips to be removed by spring this year. Just send me an email closer to then to organise.
Righto guys, sorry it's late but Covid here has been a fair spanner in my works.
Like Whwoz, I got bugger all tubers from decent plants. I'm going to put it down to the plants going in late and a quite cool summer. Gearing up to try again.
Have been chatting to Fon, and we have most of the lines between us. For those that are still keen, send me a PM and we'll work out who has what and try and get things sorted earlier.
Cheers
Steve
Quote from: whwoz on 2020-05-18, 12:42:22 AM
Chris, agree with you in principal about the clunkers being good for processing, however the problem with clunkers is that they are not a standard size and more particularly shape. In a commercial processing operation where everything is machine cut, it is not possible to have a machine that can needs to be adjusted for every root that is different in size and shape, then there is the problem of peeling roots that spiral around where one does not want peel preventing use in soup or puree.
I have summerised my season to date below:
Orange ex Bunnnings: Beauregard is what I thought that these were, but they appear to be a bit redder than last year so they may be Evangeline, need to define the differences more in my head to be sure.
Either way the nine plants were very productive, between 2 and 5.5 kg per plant roughly. Have not weighed all the roots, but based on approx. 3 kg per plant, yield = 27kg or around 59lb. Have just spent some more time on web, it would appear that Evangline has reddish new growth, Beaugread green. If that holds true I have Evangline.
Purple Skin white Flesh ex Bunnings: These are probably Northern Star. Produced roots upto 1kg est. Best yield around 4 kg, to be checked by weighing.
Purple ex Bunnings: Yet to be dug. Suspect these to be Okinawa or similiar based on leaf
From Steve1
Purple: Small plant approx. 1 meter long, may well have been smothered by others around it. No roots
Okinawa: these have the same growth as the purple from Bunnings, and maybe the same variety. Growth up to 1.75m long, no roots
Red garnet: Another that may have been a bit smothered, only small plant to 1m long. Two small roots, should be enough for slips, but not for eating.
Kumera: Stems long - 3m or there abouts. Only fine stems approximately 5mm in diameter. 3 or 4 small roots, lucky to 1 kg in total.
Blackie: The ornamental variety, lots of developing buds and sign of spent flowers, but no sign of seed pods, Only 0.75m stems but long leaf petioles so still easily seen. No roots.
Wanmun: Beast of a plant. Runners 3m plus, 12 to 15 mm thick. Long roots with no real storage roots developed. Roots thickened in places.
Northern Star, White fleshed, Purple shinned roots, best to around 1 kg est. Went in later than that from the B store so not as many roots as PSWF above but otherwise similar all round.
American White: Two roots of similar size, roughly 250mm long by 50mm diameter at thickest. White Skinned, white fleshed. Tops to 2 m.
Solomon: Thin runners to 2 m, only a few very thin roots that were not worth keeping even for slips – just too thin, would shrivel up to next to nothing.
Japanese : Two types here as suspected by steve1 after earlier comments. One typical Northern Star roots, so treated as such as it was considered the likely mix up partner, the other was a white Skinned, white fleshed root to 300 mm long and 60mm thick. Stems about 2.5m long.
Not sure why so many from Steve failed to make roots, other than they went in later than those from the B store and I suspect that some may need longer season than was provided this year
All of these have had at least 7 cuttings taken, with most floating on the dam. Ran out of room in float setup so a few under hard, clear cover until I can get another float set up built. The following links were some I came across while trying to sort out the B vs E situation and may prove useful to some.
https://jhawkins54.typepad.com/files/effect-of-cultivar-selection-spacing-on-sweet-potato-production-nair.pdf
https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2916&context=farms_reports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sweet_potato_cultivars
https://simplifygardening.com/sweet-potato-slips/
https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/sweet-potato/sweet-potato-varieties.htm
Added 18/5/20
Steve, I was unable to keep any of the varieties going over winter, so I will have to start from scratch. Will take whatever you have available, have just had a large area formed into beds, approximately 140 m, plus should have several wicking beds available.
Restarting this thread as I have recently received some seed grown tubers from one of the other Australian members, who was running out of time to look after them. These seven tubers have been potted up to develop slips, which will probably have to be maintained in pots over winter here. I shall plant the slips into the ground then around April, just before our normal first frosts, will take cuttings from each plant for maintance overwinter in pots and a more serious attempt at seed production in the spring and into next summer. To these I only have Beauregard and Okawina to ad at this point in time, but shall be endeavoring to source a greater range. Covid has impacted the movement of plants around Oz quite a bit.
An update on the above mentioned sweet potatoes, which were sent to me with a note saying that they were from a project on here aimed at turning them into a seed grown annual. As a result, the 7 tubers and resulting slips will be referred to as SSR1 to SSR7. Events got on top of me and I never got the slips into the ground before our first unexpected light frost, which tickled up some of the leaves, hopefully they will carry through to spring in a mini-greenhouse outside on the deck. When the tubers arrived, most of them had started to shoot and due to limited time and space were potted up, tubers vertical with shoots at top, into a community pot. One had not shot, so it went into and individual pot horizontally. Tubers were covered in soil in which they had been growing and I was unable to make any real assessments about the tubers at that time, not wanting to wash them in case I upset them leading to rot. Individual comments follow and where I have them, photos from when I knocked out the tubers and potted up individual slips. Upon knocking out the tubers, it soon became obvious that I could make basic colour assessments for each tuber
SSR 1.
This is the tuber planted horizontally, it produced green heart shaped leaves, had a purple skin with a purple or mottled purple flesh. Rot had started so not sure if what I was seeing was true or artefact.
SSR 2.
Tuber planted vertically, it produced green palmate leaves. Tuber fully rotten.
2nd Photo showing plants 2 to 7 after knocking out of pot, but before disturbing roots
SSR 3
Tuber planted vertically, Heart shaped Green leaves, purple skin and purple mottled flesh. Forming small tubers.
SSR4
Heart shaped Green leaves, Purple skin and Purple mottled flesh. Forming small tubers.
SSR 5
Planted vertically, Green Heart shaped leaves, Purple skin and purple (non-mottled) flesh.
SSR 6
Planted vertically, Green heart shaped leaves. Purple skin and purple mottled flesh. Forming one long thin tuber.
SSR 7,
Planted vertically, Green palmate leaves. Pale Pinkish (?) skin with white to cream flesh, vigorous shooter. Probably most of interest to me as purple flesh does not always go down well with rest of family.
Hope they do well for you when given some more space and time. The season got away from me as well (getting 1 meter of rain over three days at the peak of the flooding made all cropping impossible).
Its a shame that you are getting rot in the tubers. I haven't had that as a problem here
Richard, those tubers were seed tubers, so not surprised that they rotted a bit. Unfortunately the growing seasons for sweet potato between here and Queensland differ by about 6 months, so those tubers that were sent to me on February about the time that I should have been digging them. So I have to cross fingers and hope that I can keep the slips alive over winter.
I don't can't really explain the difference scientifically, but sweet potatoes are actually roots rather than tubers. More specifically they are storage roots, and I guess the plant uses them to store both water and nutrients. An obvious difference that I've actually observed is for example you plant a potato, which is a tuber, it sprouts from what we call eyes to grow a new plant and the old tuber rots away.
If you plant a sweet potato storage root that same old root starts growing again and from what I've seen gets pretty ugly over the season with lots of sprouts and lots of little feeder roots growing from it. Basically, it turns into an overgrown mess and makes few if any new, good to eat, storage roots. I've only done that a couple of times and don't recall cutting the old ones open but would not be surprised if they had that same issue of internal rot.
The good news is storage roots are extremely easy to store :D I have kept them for an entire year, and they are still good, both to eat or to sprout slips. They just need a cool, but not cold, dark place. A root cellar is almost too cold, and a refrigerator is way too cold. I store mine under old blankets in the spare bedroom upstairs.
Some more good news is they are extremely easy to sprout slips. Just get them out a little before planting time and expose them to some sun and water. I lay mine on their side in trays of damp sand in the south windows. The sand is just to hold them in place.
And some more good news is a slip needs almost no roots at all when transplanted out to the garden. They actually seem to make better storage roots if they start as mostly just a stem. I think having a lot of roots when planted causes them to make lots of little storage roots instead of a few nice ones. I have on many occasions just cut a stem and stuck it in the ground, in the hot sun with no roots at all. It wilts badly of course but keeping it well watered in less than a week it is growing again. Even discarded trimmings often root down and start growing.
And still some more good news is about any little slip is easy to keep over winter as a house plant. If you house is warm, and you have a nice sunny window it might even get pretty big and even make little storage roots in the pot. If it overgrows and gets annoying you can just chop off little pieces and restart them. If your house is like mine with drafty windows and a wood stove causing drastic fluctuations in temperature they might get a big tired looking but as log as they have a shred of live come spring your good to go.
Quote from: whwoz on 2022-06-15, 04:14:32 AM
Richard, those tubers were seed tubers, so not surprised that they rotted a bit.
Ok, that is understandable. You should be able to keep the slips alive through winter being further north than me
Hi Reed
The rotted tubers were from me, sent at the end of a long, hot, wet summer. Storage of sweet potato roots under such conditions is much trickier than under cool temperate conditions (especially with our healthy sweet potato weevil population). The rot probably came from weevil holes in the tubers. I agree on the top parts being easy to keep going. We just had six months of flooding rain here on heavy clay soil (the highlight being one meter of rainfall over three days....that is not a typo). I knew I wasn't going to get my tubers planted again under these extreme conditions, so sent them to some other grows to try. I still have most of my original seed in storage so will try again when things improve (though on our heavy clay soil sweet potato isn't an ideal staple crop).
Looks like at least five out of the seven lots of sweet potato slips have survived to some extent. SSR 2 , the one which rotted completely in the big pot is unlikely to recover, always was the poorest grower and one of SSR three or four may not make it. The rest will to a greater or lesser extent.
So the majority of the SSR series sweets have survived a mild winter to some extent. SSR2, the poorest grower did not make it, need to check SSR4.
SSR 1 is doing well, surviving in 3 or 4 pots and growing well. SSR 3 has only survived in 1 pot, with that slip now starting to grow well and have flower buds in every leaf axil.
SSR 1 and 3.jpg
SSR 7 has the most survivors and has grown the best of all, with multiple 3 in long new shoots on all slips growing. I could probably get something above 25 if I were to separate all as I should, just time and space limiting thing at the moment.
SSR 7.jpg
SSR 6 would be the standout performer so far, may not have grown as many branches as SSR 7, but at least two of the surviving plants have flower buds in all new leaf axils, with the flower shown being number 3 opened for the season.
ssr6.jpg
All of these are growing better than the couple of Beauregard slips potted up at the same time.
Ok, time to update this in what has been a funny season. I could not get the sweet potatoes, SSR1, SSR3, SSR4, SSR6 and SSR7 into the ground until after Christmas, so was always going to be touch and go for good tuber formation if the weather turned cool early. Fortunately the weather is up and down with some very good days in-between some wet ones. SSR 1 has been a stand out performer in the flowering stakes, but it appears that no seed has set despite having 5 honey bee hives on the place until recently.
SSR 3 and 4 have grown slowly, but have flowered well, once again with no apparent seed set. SSR 6 has grown well, flowered well but yet again has not set obvious seed.
These 4 clones are all purple flesh and skin.
SSR 7 has grown well, was much later to start flowering and does not appear to have set seed either.
I have cuttings of these 5 clones on the kitchen windowsill in water at the moment with roots under an inch long on 1, 3,6 and 7 in preparation for overwintering as cuttings again.
Time has been against me for digging the roots, but should hopefully get that done in next few days if the rats have left me anything to dig. The purples appear to have been hit hard, while number 7, which is pale pink skin over cream flesh does not have any obvious digging around the plants. All of the plants have short stems, under 0.5 m/20 inches in length.
The struck cuttings will be potted up and go into a mini greenhouse with heat supplied on the colder nights.
Shortly I will be assembling a 5 X 12 m greenhouse and the plants will go into raised beds. Inside it for a season due to the rats.
Those look like nice plants and certainly plenty of flowers. Are they just not setting seed at all, or are they aborting early on?
I believe that they have not set at all Reed, but I can take a photo of a cluster and post if it will help. A warmer summer may well see a lot more pollinators about in addition to the honey bees that we have had on the block the last couple of years, which may well help also.
Ok, this is what I have been seeing, the first is from SSR 1, with leaves removed, about 40 flowers on the stem.
The second is from SSR 7, about 10 flowers on the stem.
Yesterday was very cloudy to a frost here, ice on cars but not ground, but it must have been enough to tickle up the purple Sweet potatoes and it revealed number 3, one of multiple stems showing that I do in fact have seed forming, would say on first inspection that these are at a typical stage of development
Ok, further update time.
Rats demolished the only tuber on SSR 3 that I could find, left me enough to confirm that it is purple/purple. Shoot starting to show on remnants of root, so everything potted up and on heat. No seed pods evident.
SSR 4, Rats had not touched 2 small and one medium sized root on the two plants of this one. Tops potted up and on heat. No seed pods evident. Still to work out the best way to mature roots.
SSR 6. It looks like rats may have been visiting this one as well, need to dig more to confirm. Went to grab some more bits to pot up and put on heat when I saw seed pods, not as many as on 1 bit a good number. Hold on is that one mature, looks like it, probably 2 seeds, let's check, yep checking one all good nice and firm, go to check number 2 and whoops, excuse me while I vent. Of course I dropped it, dark seed on dark soil, no hope of finding it. Some potted up and on heat.
SSR 1, probably the most rat prone and certainly the most florific, with lots of buds on stems, up to 100 per stem in bunches of 10 per flower spike. A quick guesstimate would be somewhere north of 20 seed pods across the plants, with up to 4 pods per spike, I reckon 2 seeds per pod.
Will get to SSR 7 shortly
SSR 7 This one is from totally different stock to the other sweets having palmate leaves and different coloured root skin and flesh.
Took longer to flower although it flowered well once it started. No obvious seed pods evident, although I need to have a better look through the leaves out there.
Appears to be slightly more cold tolerant than the other sweets having survived the recent cold night with loss of very few leaves unlike the other sweets which lost a fair percentage of there leaves.
More inclined to root from the leaf nodes too.
Well done whwoz 8)
Hopefully those pods of yours have more than a single seed like I got.
Quote from: Richard Watson on 2023-05-17, 07:29:00 PMWell done whwoz 8)
Hopefully those pods of yours have more than a single seed like I got.
Thanks Richard, by the looks of the pods, I am anticipating that most hold two seeds, fingers crossed
I wonder when I start getting more than one seed per pod.