Everyone's Pea Projects?

[Cathy A]

The problem with self-sowing is that it works against crop rotation.

You may find that beds grown in legumes year after year start to build nematode concentrations to levels that could be a problem.

I grow claytonia every year in cold frames and let them tiny seeds self sow. In late spring, I pull any remaining claytonia, compost it, turn the soils over and add nutrients, and plante something else through summer into early fall.

In fall, I pull the next crop and turn the soil over again, and the claytonia sprouts and starts growing slowly through the winter ready for spring.

But this only works because the claytonia season is so short and the crop so undemanding. Peas tie up the bed for months, and generated huge amounts of green tops that I like to turn under and let decay.

I would expect the self-sowing pea seeds to sprout in the cool of fall, then die before the prime spring pea season returns.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

For years, I maintained a population of winter-hardy peas. They would sprout in the fall and grow vigorously in the spring. They were good for greens, but I didn't like them for fresh-eating peas, because they took a long time to mature. If I could have had the patience to select for a crop that would mature quicker than spring planted peas, then that would have been awesome to be first to market with fresh peas.

[reed]

I haven't had good luck with peas in recent years until I stumbled on some three or four years ago. I don't know where they came from. I planted a collection of all kinds of peas really early, like in January and quite a lot came up, but most got killed by later freezes. Only a half a dozen or so survived. They all turned out to be the same type of sweet pod pea. Since I've planting really early, and they just ignore the later cold snaps.  This year will be my biggest crop yet and we get to eat lots of them and still have plenty for seed. I Was just looking at them, in another day or two we can chow down. They get about four or five feet tall, and the pods are very sweet and crips, even when well filled out.

[Steph S]

We've had so much trouble getting an early pea crop here.  Years with early spring, the early plantings ended up vining for months, much longer than usual, without any flowering or peas.
Then sometimes the later planted peas just don't have a long enough season to produce either.
I guess what we need are some really short season peas.

I'm very interested in the peas that overwintered and are flowering so early @AndrewBarney. 
I think most peas have a gene that delays flowering if they experience early season cold.
So if any of your elatius or fulvus hybrids bring different genes in which are not so affected, it's a good thing!

[AndrewB]

The elatius x domestic peas really are very early. I do not know if they are affected by cold, but the domestic parent is 'Alaska', so likely not a problem in that regard and Alaska is supposed to be early itself I think. Though I've never grown it.

The fulvum hybrids also are very early as well as talked about in the De novo super-early progeny in interspecific crosses Pisum sativum L. × P. fulvum Sibth. et Sm hybrids paper. According to the paper the F1 hybrids flower about 63-64 days. So guessing 85 dtm.

The f2 and f3 and beyond have a much wider range of between 17-96 and 13-180 respectively. While the range is larger in F2, F3 and beyond, it means that if we can use a bell curve to do extreme selection to shift the population to early producing.

I found another of these flowering today in my own garden area that self sowed from last years shattering pods. I planted my peas in this area about March 10th or march 17th, pre-soaked, which is the earliest I've ever planted peas. My planted peas are not flowing yet, but if you assume that this wild pea grew at the same time, then it took about 60 days from planted to flowering. So guessing 85 dtm.

In comparison, PI 180868 is an extra early pea in the ARS GRIN database. It takes about 55 days to flower and about 80 to maturity / harvest.

'Alaska' is reported to reach flowering after 44 days. So guessing about 70 dtm.

Theoretically with the range of super early flowering of these fulvum hybrids one could probably breed a 40-45 dtm pea variety. But this is just theory. I don't remember seeing any that early.

[Cathy A]

Steph, what kind of peas are you growing? Have you tried dwarf peas?

Your comment about a long vining season makes me think you are growing some kind of pole pea, or perhaps a bush pea that grows tall.

I've had good luck with Tall Telephone poles peas here, but they do not produce anything to eat until the very end of June at the earliest, and they are mostly a July crop.

Have you tried Sugar Bon or Lillian's Caseload? I'm planning to trial both this fall, knowing that I need short-season peas to get a crop before the freeze.

[Steph S]

I haven't tried either of the peas you mentioned, so let me know how they go.
We mostly grow edible pod peas for the table, but I've also been trialing soup peas for a couple of years. I've been avoiding really early plantings though, due to past experience with various kinds.
Some of the dwarf soup peas were notably early - I do soak my seed so they're sprouted at planting time, and Margaret McKee's baking pea was earliest to flower at around 42? days from planting iirc.  And others were 44 or 47 days to flower, not too bad.  With a soup pea, you have a longer wait for them to mature and start to dry on the vine, so they really do need to be early as possible.
I made some crosses between dwarf and tall/late soup peas and have some F2 seeds to try this year.
Also in edible pods, I crossed the (really small)dwarf Sugar Sprint with Sugar Magnolia, and have some F2 of those as well.
 
The main issue I have had with dwarfs is that if anything challenging happens, you're not going to get much of a crop.  Medium sized to tall peas have more vigor I think and more of a chance to recover from a setback.

Edible pods I grow or have grown here that are early enough:  Tai Chung (medium tall and very productive, pink flowered snow)  Golden Sweet;  Calvert;  Avalanche.  Sugar Sprint was really tasty but not exactly productive.  Sugar Snap does well here too. 
We don't expect a crop of peas before mid July here, even when they're on time.  August, not uncommon.

[AndrewB]

I am going to try to do a late planting of Tai Chung now. I think I can squeeze a few plants in, though I probably shouldn't.

I thought I had seed for Mrs. LEI, which I thought was also a pink flowered snow pea? But I can't find that one.

[Cathy A]

Sugar Bon produces edible pods.

I find the fall pea season marginal enough that if any challenges occur, I'm not going to get a crop no matter what type of pea variety I plant.

I have gotten a decent fall yield no more than one year in five.

It requires early sowing, which usually means pulling another crop before it's completely finished producing in order to make space available for peas; a later than usual first frost; low enough late summer rainfall to avoid mildew; and quite possibly other factors I have not identified.

Hopefully the faster time to fruit production of Sugar Bon and Lillian's Caseload will reduce the barriers, but I still doubt I will get a good crop as reliably as the spring Tall Telephone crop.

[Adam Igra]

I sowed my peas in march expecting a frost that never happened, but we just dont get any light in the UK till april anyway. Theyre just now flowering. I have a purple snap and a giant snow pea I wanted to cross just to get giant sugar snaps.

I think ive managed to convince my family to sow them over sweet peas in the future  They seem to have identical purple and pink flowers to the common vetch here.

Anyone know anything about Red Pea Pod projects that have gone around in the past? A Ms. Robsie Fairholm seemed to get 6 generations but dissapeared from the internet by 2019. I remember a post by Mr Lofthouse over his own red peas but again my trail went cold. Seems like a line worth selling commercially if it could be stabilised.

[AndrewB]

Anyone know anything about Red Pea Pod projects that have gone around in the past? A Ms. Robsie Fairholm seemed to get 6 generations but dissapeared from the internet by 2019. I remember a post by Mr Lofthouse over his own red peas but again my trail went cold. Seems like a line worth selling commercially if it could be stabilised.

I am still working on mine. But I need to re-stabalize it after trying to backcross it to improve flavor. Without decent flavor it is not worth releasing yet.

Those were the early ones I was mentioning that I planted as early as possible this year.

I've had the color stabilized for some time, and except for Rebsies version I think mine had the best color. I recently did a backcross to try and improve flavor as none of my reds or the ones bred by the Kapulers taste very good. If I can re-stabalize them this year and continue grow outs I think I will be ready to finally release mine after about 14 years of breeding!

My red podded breeding line was bred from crosses I did in 2010 from Golden Sweet and Sugar Magnolia. Joseph did the same crosses around the same time, maybe even 2009. He shared seed with me and I merged his efforts with mine and over the next few years selected the best colored pods. They had the half-snap pod shape like Sugar Magnolia. Joseph no longer grows peas because of weevils in his valley.

These were some of the earliest photos I put on my old blog:





As a side note, I made contact with Rebsie a few years ago and she was going to try and pick up where she left off. I haven't heard from her since. But even her old project looked to be ways ahead of mine even after all these years of not working on it.

[Adam Igra]

Glad to hear you are continuing! Whats up with the taste, off notes, too fibrous? Personally I much prefer sugar snaps to snow peas, perhaps the untasty genes are in Golden Sweet? Snow peas are better cooked though, in garlic butter like everything ever.

I have found "Opal Creek" a yellow sugarsnap descended from golden sweet
https://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/dots/opalcreek.html
Claimed to be by the breeder of Sugar Magnolia which if im right is the purple parent in this red project.


and Honeysnap II
https://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/peas/snap-peas/honey-snap-ii-pea-seed-4114.html

Claimed to be by the breeder of sugar snap (I didnt know it was  originally a named cultivar  ), who passed in 2017 unfortunately. didnt see its ancestry. it seems to be a short bush pea.

Thats all I could find for yellow peas. Perhaps though the flavour is in the sugar magnolia.

 Not sure if I should try starting a red line, this is my first year growing peas. Im growing sugar magnolia and a giant snow pea "bijou".





common vetch vs sugar magnolia. just thought was interesting!

[AndrewB]

Hi Adam, a combination I suppose. The short answer is that early on in the project I only selected for good color combinations and did no selections for flavor.

This included fiber genes and other taste genetics. There is also the common debate whether anthocyanins are bitter in taste or through genetic drag also bring along bitter tannin genes in the process.

Carol Deppe describes Sugar Magnolia as a half-snap, and I agree with her. It does not have the proper snap crunch. Using any of the snap lines bred by the now late Calvin Lamborn would probably be a better starting point. I have debated about using these in back crosses, and I might.

Bijou is a very good pea. It is in my "large podded" selected mix of Bijou, Carouby de Massaune, and Green Beauty. I am not sure which of the three was the best, but I mixed them together and saved seed over several years of what grew the best. It has won my own garden taste tests 3 or 4 years in a row and it is even the leaf cutter bees favorite variety due to its low fiber genes. I think dwarf grey was the next favorite of the leaf cutter bees.

Honeysnap II x Bijou would be a very good cross to make. I am uncertain if the snap shape would work with such large pods, but I think it should be tried!

I like snaps ok, but I much prefer my "large podded" snow pea mix. They are large,  have low fiber,  are sweet, and are even not starchy when large and decently mature.

[Diane Whitehead]

When you are tasting your peas, do you eat them raw or cooked?

[Cathy A]

I saw references to a cross with Alaska peas earlier in this thread.

I have grown Alaska in the spring with good results and good yield. I think the pods were a little smaller than other varieties I've tried.

I haven't grown them the last few years because I've largely settled on a mix of Tall Telephone and either Improved Maestro or Lincoln for my spring pea crop.