Trying to get dark greens tomatoes

[Klaus Brugger]

In the first message of this thread i wrote

What about crossing these dark green tomato with blue (anthocyanin) tomatoes ? The accumulation of chlorophyll could lead to very dark blue tomatoes.

There's a cool paper by Sestari et al. (2014) showing very high anthocyanin levels in Aft/atv/hp-2 fruits.
The light-hyperresponsiveness conferred by hp-2 might boost light-dependent anthocyanin production.

Sestari, I., Zsögön, A., Rehder, G. G., Teixeira, L. de L., Hassimotto, N. M. A., Purgatto, E., ... Peres, L. E. P. (2014). Near-isogenic lines enhancing ascorbic acid, anthocyanin and carotenoid content in tomato (Solanum lycopersicum L. cv Micro-Tom) as a tool to produce nutrient-rich fruits. Scientia Horticulturae, 175, 111–120. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scienta.2014.06.010   

[Roland]

Here a seedling test with a yellow sheet which causes seedlings to not get enough light and become very tall and thin. Seedlings homozygous hp2-dg would be able to make better use of the light under the yellow skin and would therefore be stretched for less time.

In the photo from left to right:
LA3005 (hp2-dg / hp2-dg)
Black Cherry (gf/gf)
Black Cherry x galahad (gf/-)
LA3005 x galahad (hp2-dg/-)
Galahad ( - / -)

You see a clear difference in length in the homozygous hp-2dg plants.
With this method you can quickly select the right seedlings from hundreds of seedlings

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Reversion-of-the-hp-1-developmental-phenotype-in-11-d-old-tomato-seedlings-following_fig2_44691033?fbclid=IwAR3NCEWUorDMp3sZTGDz-_InlJzcff5W9E-l9PV3MmciKopH8oLrVfsxgeo

For pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0pkSmt4fWYxcBodmwjwU8yMEGSWJtoZVYRLVGwTsdPfUnxJpwNLRysg3JqUuRbrUNl&id=100024953531011

[Justin Jardinier]

This thread is so interesting. I'm gaining a lot by re-reading it.

I have been growing some parent plants for my next crosses, some of which have gf, others not and yet others are unstable for gf. What I realize now is that you don't actually need any complex dark treatment of the leaves to recognize the gf plants because the non-gf's tend to start yellowing some lower leaves or at least cotyledons at some point naturally in my current (less optimal) growing conditions. The confirmed gf plants stay green. If the goal is to select for gf, one just need to erase the yellowing plants.

On this point I quote above, is this an advantage, or a disadvantage? I mean, is it a beneficial adaptation for the leaves to yellow? The only think I can think of is perhaps in the case of diseases, it could be advantageous to loose old leaves? Or, perhaps it's the other way around, because the leaves of this mutation stay green, they fight against disease better?

Or is dropping old leaves a way of getting rid of toxins?

It seems great that this hp-2dg gene increases the carotenoid content.

Yes, there may be some truth to that. Hp-2 dg plants grow more slowly. I think they also germinate slower.

Is that just at the seedling stage, or, do they also give ripe fruit later (for example excluding the bit of extra time they might need at seedling stage)? Since earliness is so important here, I'm curious about that.

F3 Dark Red Beefsteak - Klaus

Might any seeds of that be available? I'd love to work with this gene, and being red (or orange would be great too!) and larger are great benefits - with my interspecial crosses with wild green species I'm avoiding green tomatoes as it would complicate things, and size increase is also a high priority.

Roland that's awesome that you've also crossed it with Galahad. Would be so great to have homozygous Ph-2 and Ph-3 versions of so many things. This year I will be growing out some Galahad F1 crosses and working on making more (including with lycopersicum).

[Justin Jardinier]

Hi Roland

LA3005 (hp2-dg / hp2-dg)

Is this the same gene which is referred to as 'hp2' in the document youshared on the other thread?

Here a presentation about:
Early blight
Late blight ph5 gene
High Lycopene

https://tgc.ifas.ufl.edu/2009/Foolad%20TBRT-2009.pdf

In that document it states:

• hp1 (high pigment-1)
• hp2 – Spontaneous mutations
– Both genes have serious undesirable
pleiotropic effects

Anyone know what undesirable effects it's referring to?
About their source they say is:

–Richest sources of lycopene in tomato
–Superior to hp1, hp2 and Ogc
–NO known pleiotropic effects

I can't remember if they had released any tomato yet that has their new source of 7~10 times increased lycopene content. I thought they had released one but can't find it in that thread. I now even wonder what it might be like to combine both these traits, maybe get even higher levels!

[ThomatoGarden]

Wow, these Tomatoes look great.

This will be a beautiful addition to all currently existing Colors/Varieties.

[Justin Jardinier]

I can't remember if they had released any tomato yet that has their new source of 7~10 times increased lycopene content. I thought they had released one but can't find it in that thread. I now even wonder what it might be like to combine both these traits, maybe get even higher levels!

I just found the tomato I was referring to. The search function on this forum has not been working for quite a few days (every time I try at least, it says "Due to high stress on the server, the search function has been automatically and temporarily disabled. Please try again in a short while."), so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already. But it's Valentine F1:
https://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/tomatoes/grape-tomatoes/valentine-organic-f1-tomato-seed-3371G.html

Delicious high-lycopene grape.

Massive early yields, deep-red color, and unusually rich flavor. Developed in collaboration with Dr. Majid Foolad of Penn State University, Valentine marries the best of wild-type tomato genetics with flavorful high-performing strains. This vivid red, high-yielding, and early blight-resistant tomato is the first commercial variety developed with Penn State's patented high-lycopene breeding lines. Excellent color contrast when mixed with Nova or Golden Sweet, Valentine adds diversity to a small tomato mix. Avg. fruit weight 12–14 gm. Long shelf life. AAS winner. US Patent #8,524,992. Indeterminate. NOTE: For best flavor, harvest when fruits are deep red. USDA Certified Organic.

Though since it has a patent, perhaps it can be used in breeding....

[Roland]

Hi Roland

Is this the same gene which is referred to as 'hp2' in the document youshared on the other thread?

Not Sure, Nicolas told me the hp-2dg gene is 'stronger' as hp2. But i also found that they renamed the dg gene to hp2 so maybe this is why we call it now hp-2dg?

[Roland]

The hp2-dg flowers of Manapal LA3005 are very dark and look like a lot on tangerine.

The stamens of tangerine flowers are more orange as normal red tomatoes. But I don't see a lot of difference in color of the stamens.

I noticed that the stamens of Manapal LA3005 hp-2 dg are also very dark. I see no difference in stamen color between Orange banana (tt) and LA3005 (hp-2dg)

This can be useful to recognize the hp-2dg plants earlier.

[Adrian]

Hi Nicolas,
The fruit that i have selected is very tasty, probably better of black krim.

The three black fruits at middle are of your project

Its normal thet one plant of the F3 has a determinate bush?

[Adrian]

Strangerly the plant of your selection the most dark green has a determinate bush and it given very tasty darks fruits.
I have two ideas:
Strenghten the black color to crosses one of thoses plants with black krim or integrated a orange pigment (polycopene or beta carotene)

[Adrian]

Congratulations, Nicolas
You  are great breeder
One of my sélection of the amber fruit.
 Unfortunately the plant has a determinate bush but she is very dark

[Adrian]

Cut look of the amber fruit sélection

[Adrian]

Hi Nicolas,
I have growed 6 plants of your project this year.I have dound one plant with very dark fruits.The plant has a very compact bush and strong leafs.