Montana Tomato Project

[William Schlegel]

In the old fenced garden the number 365 tomato I selected last year looks odd. It might have something like curly top virus. No other line in the same garden has that look though so maybe its the only susceptible one.

Tomatoes are finally starting to bloom fairly well after the late frosts. It's also hot now. Will see how much fruit sets. Next weekend may be too hot for making crosses and I haven't started yet. Hopefully the summer will cool down a bit.

[William Schlegel]

Bad hail damage last night. With the June eighth frost this is another serious setback. Plants will be ok. Currently pretty hot for fruit set. Will be a very late tomato crop.

[reed]

Sorry to hear that, lots of folks having weather issues this year. So far so good here but hot and dry right now, small storms popping all around, but they have missed us.

The F3 of that Mr. Stripy cross you did for me was the first of the larger tomatoes to ripen this year. Phenotype of the plants is similar to last year but fruit on one plant not as sweet and delicious as the others, I culled it out so as not to accidentally save its seeds. The wife is staying with her mother for a couple days, by time she gets home we'll need to can tomatoes.

[William Schlegel]

Oh it would be nice to have a ripe tomato!

[Jade Arrowleaf]

...fruit from seed in 90 days with adverse conditions.  Antho shoulders, larger fruit(still fas) and appeared SI with every flower exserted.  ...progress toward a fast and productive line for the farmer's market adapted to my situation.

Harvested first fruit of the season from one of these f2 plants.  110 days from seed, quite different conditions.  Seems less antho and most fruits smaller this generation but close to every flower exserted so far.  This one still so mutated that it enveloped the petals/sepals which left these stripe marks on the blossom-end.

[William Schlegel]

Interesting tomato combination!

[William Schlegel]

I got my first five tomatoes from three of the new 2025 F1's today. Plants that got some extra protection from a thick layer of sand for the June 8th frost. Cherry tomatoes.

[William Schlegel]

I'm having serious doubts about my 2026 tomato garden. Just had deer hit the garden at the apartment. The garden land gardens seem to be small and far behind due to frost, hail, and perhaps heat and inadequate weeding. Time may not be on my side depending on when first frost chooses to come. Got seed tomatoes back from one additional cross this weekend. All protected from the June 8th frost by heat radiating from a thick sand layer- so not genetics. Interesting but frustrating 2026 results so far.

[reed]

It really doesn't seem to be getting easier, does it?

All protected from the June 8th frost by heat radiating from a thick sand layer- so not genetics. Interesting but frustrating 2026 results so far.

That is a really important point that I think a lot of people don't take seriously enough. All sorts of little microclimates exist; random chance is pretty common too. I'm often wondering when I see something distinctive is whether its genetic or environmental.

[Carol Deppe]

When you just have one of something distinct, you indeed can't be sure whether it is distinctive because of genes instead of environment when the distinction is earliness or faster or more vigorous growth or bigger or smaller size.

There are some things you can check for, however. Is the plant at the end of a row or next to a space where the an adjacent plant failed so it had more space than most?

What about variable shade?

One thing I like to do is walk the rows the second day after (overhead) irrigation when most of the ground looks dry on top but some areas will appear damp, giving me a graphic indication of what is getting more water. And I compare the plants in the two kinds of soil to determine whether any of the planting is water-limited.

With tomatoes, if you have a distinct plant with a different color or shape, that is very likely to be genetic.

The environment has a huge influence on flavor of tomatoes in maritime Oregon. Professional produce handling says that tomatoes should not be refrigerated or stored at below 50 degrees F because it screws up flavor. Yet most market gardeners here pick their tomatoes early in the morning; our nights go down into the 60s almost every night. My observation is tomatoes here picked full ripe in the morning have less sweetness and an off flavor compared with those picked after they have had some sun. Some varieties even have a bitter flavor. In fact, the best flavor is obtained by picking the tomatoes one to three days or so before full ripe in the afternoon and bringing them indoors to ripen to perfect prime.

[William Schlegel]

It really doesn't seem to be getting easier, does it?

Generally it is. Though have a lot of new F1s this year. Though almost regardless of adaptation this is just a challenging tomato year so far.

[William Schlegel]

Carol,

I have learned that July and August are the best flavor months here. Sometimes in September and October the frost spares us now. However the cold doesn't let the same level of flavor develop. So I feel like a bad tomato grower this year.

The exception I've noticed is Black Cherry. I really want to make some crosses with it because it seems to have good flavor when cold. I bought a plant or two this year for that purpose. Though if I had two only one of them is still uneaten by deer!

[Carol Deppe]

One aspect of flavor has to do with the u gene. For uniform shoulders. One reason why most university and big seed company bred tomatoes are so tasteless is because they all have been chasing the fad of wanting uniform shoulders, that is, for example, a red tomato that is uniform red with no greenish shoulders. Uniform shoulders requires uu. When the plant is uu the chlorophyll in the green tomato is less, and when the chlorophyll lessens a bit during ripening there is too little chlorophyll to give the shoulders an off color. Apparently the chlorophyll in the tomato skin is needed for best flavor.

You may have noticed that all the heirlooms with the greatest flavor have distinctively off color shoulders.

A prof at one of the Florida universities studied the u gene and showed it causes a dramatic drop in sugar content as well as various "aromatics." And the u gene is cause, not mere correlation. When he used genetic engineering to knock out just theu gene, the sugar and aromatics dropped dramatically.

I suspect all my favorite varieties are relatively resistent to cold effects on growth, production, or flavor. For my early crop I use Stupice. It's a small red tomato up to about 2" across. The earliest tomato I know that has full flavor.  For my pink tomato I use Pruden's Purple. About 1 lb. It has flavor just as good as Brandywine but is considerably earlier. Brandywine doesn't always ripen here. For my main crop red tomato I like Amish paste. It has great flavor raw even though a paste. My favorite tomato of all and favorite black is Black Krim. See photo below. All these are indeterminate. Stupice is determinate but smaller than most determinates. I plant it at 2' apart in the row, the rest at 4'.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/caroldeppe/15602875910/

[Adrian]

One aspect of flavor has to do with the u gene. For uniform shoulders. One reason why most university and big seed company bred tomatoes are so tasteless is because they all have been chasing the fad of wanting uniform shoulders, that is, for example, a red tomato that is uniform red with no greenish shoulders. Uniform shoulders requires uu. When the plant is uu the chlorophyll in the green tomato is less, and when the chlorophyll lessens a bit during ripening there is too little chlorophyll to give the shoulders an off color. Apparently the chlorophyll in the tomato skin is needed for best flavor.

You may have noticed that all the heirlooms with the greatest flavor have distinctively off color shoulders.



I suspect all my favorite varieties are relatively resistent to cold effects on growth, production, or flavor. For my early crop I use Stupice. It's a small red tomato up to about 2" across. The earliest tomato I know that has full flavor.  For my pink tomato I use Pruden's Purple. About 1 lb. It has flavor just as good as Brandywine but is considerably earlier. Brandywine doesn't always ripen here. For my main crop red tomato I like Amish paste. It has great flavor raw even though a paste. My favorite tomato of all and favorite black is Black Krim. See photo below. All these are indeterminate. Stupice is determinate but smaller than most determinates. I plant it at 2' apart in the row, the rest at 4'.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/caroldeppe/15602875910/

The most part of black varietys are the mosts tasty but they give back a lot of water. If the weather is bad they can be rot before their maturity.

Black krim has a low vigor is the weather is too hot and the fruits caught easily the apical necrosis.


Thoses varietys can be improved for me. The better varietys for me was the black and pink descendants of a red variety x green giant.

[William Schlegel]

Stupice is a well known good tomato here. I've underutilized it in my breeding so far. My mom really likes Black Krim. I think a lot of tomatoes that can be grown here including Amish Paste and Brandywine miss the optimal flavor window. I very much hope that I am breeding tomatoes that much more consistently hit that prime time.

I'm sure that uniform gene is mixed into my work because it's so ubiquitous. I'm also sure a lot of my lines don't have it because they don't ripen uniformly on the shoulders.

The line I've been chasing for flavor the longest has become a fusion of my and Joseph's work. Line 339 a blue bicolor potato leaf dwarf but every year it seems like they don't all have the best flavor. It's a mystery and I hope it ripens some fruit this year of the proper flavor so stabilization can continue. Though maybe it is possible that not everything can exist in a stable form?