Garden Journal

[Randy Simmons]

Added Sunviva to my tomato list as well as Rinon Rippled, Isfahan, and Moyamensing.  I really need to stop buying seeds.

Started Korean Chilis, Poblanos, and Serranos saved from last year and some seeds a friend gave me, and Fish peppers. 

I have squash seeds I saved from last year plus some Ayote seeds, and Arabat.  I found a pack of Sucrine du Berry in my collection but not sure if I want to plant it because I will have to take space from something else at this point.

For okra planting what I saved from last year and adding Puerto Rico Everblush, Catawba Freeman, Ken's, Burgundy, Zambia Landrace I, Heavy Hitter, Never Again, and Bamyeh Falastinia.  May try some more Ultracross again.

For sorghum I have Mennonite and Nerum Boer. 

Also have several packs of peas I'm going to mix and plant and an assortment of carrot seeds I got from Nikitovka with my small batches permit.

Not sure where I'm going to find room for everything because my garden's not that big.  Also, the only ones I have started are the peppers.  I don't start tomatoes until more toward the end of March and I may possibly have to go out of state for work so won't be able to babysit the starts.

[Garrett Schantz]

Planted Valentines Cypress Vine, Clark's Heavenly Blue Morning Glory, Moonflower - two different Melothria species and some other things around a bunch of sticks and other sorta trellis type things.

Also planted Psophocarpus tetragonolobus, Lavender butterfly pea.

Planted another edible legume with blue flowers - Lathyrus sativus, but I planted it near the same area I planted old sword bean and some other things.


There's another legume I know of with some edible qualities and self seeds, well enough. I think it's from Europe or somewhere. Flowers remind me of a ladybug coloration. Red flowers, some black spots.

I think I tried growing it once. If I knew the name, I could probably buy seed or look into it again.

[Jeremy Weiss]

Planted Valentines Cypress Vine, Clark's Heavenly Blue Morning Glory, Moonflower - two different Melothria species and some other things around a bunch of sticks and other sorta trellis type things.

Also planted Psophocarpus tetragonolobus, Lavender butterfly pea.

Planted another edible legume with blue flowers - Lathyrus sativus, but I planted it near the same area I planted old sword bean and some other things.


There's another legume I know of with some edible qualities and self seeds, well enough. I think it's from Europe or somewhere. Flowers remind me of a ladybug coloration. Red flowers, some black spots.

I think I tried growing it once. If I knew the name, I could probably buy seed or look into it again.

That red flowered one is probably asparagus pea, Lotus tetragonalobis. At least, that's the only common-ish garden legume I know with red and possibly black flowers (there are some black flowered fava beans, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what you mean.) And it, like the wingbeans, originates in Asia (though it IS pretty common in Europe now.)

On my side, I'm putting together a sort of cocktail of small legumes, of both edible and non edible quality. I have a dozen or so vetches, some yellow vetch (Lathyrus alphaca) that descended from the stuff I pulled out from all those lentil bags ten or so years ago.

I MIGHT grow Grass Pea (your L. Sativus) but that sort of depends on whether I have the courage to go back into NYC before the planting season for that comes for the area around here (Or, more accurately, when I can work out some answer to the problem of not wanting or being able to take my face mask off for the whole time I'm there with the difficulty of breathing through it long term and the danger of not being able to eat or drink ANYTHING (because of the mask thing) for 6-8 hours straight while doing heavy exertion (not a great idea for a diabetic with hyperhidrosis.) I don't get good results with any of the mail order strains, so growing them requires getting back to the spice shop and looking around for likely candidates.

I've got a few small legumes on their way to add to this, some sort of Andean Indigo, an unidentified pink flowered Macropitilium, and an unidentified lupine, both also from the South American regions.

On the way from Africa, I have a few more colors of African Yam beans on their way, and I already have a few Bambarra and Kersting's groundnut types here to play with. Of course, there are also the Sword beans I got from Ghana and the lablabs, but the sword beans I'll probably hold until next season, I only have so much room to work with. Plus, the lablabs are marginally more important, since there there is a clear purpose (trying to find any besides Ruby moon and the brown seeded bush type I got from a fellow seed saver that are sufficiently day-length neutral to actually FLOWER here.)

I HAVE wing bean seeds (quite a lot of them, in fact) but again, day length is not my friend for those here (actually, I'm kind of surprised you can get them to grow, I've had people as far down as Florida on my other group complaining they can't get reliable flowering for those.)

And, of course, I am allotting some space to off color rice beans, mung beans, azuki beans and mothe beans (though I may skip the azukis this year, they really don't need a regeneration at this time.) Oh, and I guess the horse gram (Dolichos biflorus) will need to be taken care of as well (and the limas, and the common beans).   

[Garrett Schantz]

The winged beans that I planted are "Urizun", this variety isn't day length sensitive or at least not to the same degree as other varieties.

There's some zone 6 growers that get pods.

I'm unsure if this variety is a perennial or not. Think I've read some are, some aren't. Don't believe they'll give me a ton of pods. But, they are interesting.


I did toss some Macrotyloma uniflorum seeds out into a spot around the Azure Blue peas. I think those are called "horse gram". Super small seeds. Bought them years ago.

The one sword bean I planted had white seeds I think.

The other has brown seeds and is called a "Beach Bean" - believe they are edible when young in same quantities. Same genus, wanted to try crossing them at some point.

I believe Richters seed zoo has Purple-Black Sword Bean from Ghana, and Togo Sword Bean from, Togo.

Both are 6 seeds in a packet for $8.75

I'm not playing around with sword beans at the moment too much. More or less planted old packets.

Siberian Pea Shrub seems neat too.


And, thanks for helping me find the name of the one legume. From what I can tell, I could probably get these sorts of species to naturalize or self seed in some small areas. I've heard that species isn't very aggressive.

Granted, the seeds and pods are small. I think the flowers are small too.

I don't mind. Would be more of letting an interesting possible famine food spread.

Siberian pea shrubs can become overly aggressive. So, those are also cool - but troublesome. Probably more efficient in terms of food usages.

If something is going to become naturalized in any way, I'd prefer for it to be a "pops up here and there in small amounts, and natives usually outcompete it" category plant.

[Jeremy Weiss]

Macrotyloma uniflorum is the same thing as Dolichos biflourus, they moved it about thirty or forty years ago (same as I refer to my rice beans still as Vinga umbelliferata, but a lot of places now list them as Phaseolus calcaractus.) This, is a bit ironic, as the Kersting's Groundnuts I am trying are now I think the ONLY species left in Macrotyloma (Macrotyloma geocarpum.)

Part of the problem is that just being day length neutral isn't good enough for me in wing beans. They have to be day length neutral AND have cream colored seeds (mature seeds of wing bean can be used as a soybean substitute, and the pale cream seeds are the most palatable.)

My horse gram all came out of bags from the Indian grocery store. I basically put together two lines, one with jet black seeds (typical color is sort of tan) and one with dead white ones (really not common, but they do exist.)

I DEFINTITELY do not need any more sword beans, not only did my Ghana person supply me with plenty, but most of them are MUCH prettier than just flat white, red or anything like that. Some are white with big purple streaks, or a sort of purple netting on them.

And I doubt either of those are still in the seed zoo. I pop in there from time to time still, and they barely have ANYTHING there now (Joe probably hasn't sent them anything in over a decade now, and since they don't regenerate the things in the zoo themselves, it empties faster than it fills.) I don't think they even still have any of the Volta white Maize I was playing around with (since it is from Ghana, I checked with my supplier there to see if he knew of any source, but apparently, while maize is still the #1 grain crop there, that old kind has been almost totally replaced by more modern strains (though it does still linger in memory, I've seen a photo of a Ghanian customized coffin done as an ear of it (you can tell since it was the same as the packet, nearly all white, but with the odd yellow and purple kernel.)

The Lima beans should be interesting, I got those from Liberia (gave away the stuff there was lots of, but kept the rarer patterns for myself).   

[Garrett Schantz]

I believe the sword beans are in stock. But yeah, when it first came around he had tons of stuff on there.

I think people other than him may list things there too.


I check like at the beginning and end of the year. Sword beans are both still in stock. The capers are like a zone colder than the usual type in terms of hardiness. Perennial down to like zone 7ish.


I know Raindanceseeds has some limas:

https://raindanceseeds.squarespace.com/rare-vegetables/pauls-jungle-lima-bean-phaseolus-lunatus

https://raindanceseeds.squarespace.com/rare-vegetables/peruvian-cow-print-lima-bean-phaseolis-lunatus

https://raindanceseeds.squarespace.com/rare-vegetables/lima-bean-ping-zebra-phaseolis-lunatus

https://raindanceseeds.squarespace.com/rare-vegetables/lima-bean-deep-maroon-and-white-phaseolis-lunatus


Dunno if you have those varieties or not. I quite like that guy's site. Full of a lot of wild species and whatnot.

[Garrett Schantz]

This is the site I mean by Roughwood Seed Collection:

They seem to sell things that don't return (some do come back).

https://www.seedways.org/

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/assam-cucumber


They are currently selling Tagetes lucida, and Tagetes minuta. Plus, some marigold varieties that were used for food dyes or whatever else.

There's also:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/spiked-thyme-mediterranean-thyme

This species is also called Za'atar. There's an Oregano species also called Za'atar, so if someone wants the herbs used to make a spice - they have this thyme. Plus it's roughly 4 dollars cheaper than seeds for it elsewhere.


This species is neat:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/chufa-ground-almond-tiger-nut

(Edible Agricultural Pest)

An interesting Rutabaga:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/trentino-rutabaga-cavolo-navone


Rampion Bellflower:

Edible. Tastes decent enough. Flowers look nice. Not an overly common species to find seed for.

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/rampion-or-rapunzel


I want to try growing these, despite the lack of an image:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/cabeza-de-lagarto-crocodile-chili

Rare chili:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/chile-congo-of-nicaragua


Orach:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/roughwood-aurora-orach

Edible seeds, leaves etc:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/cypriot-bliton-or-vlita-amaranthus-lividus

Edible thistles:

This one is, very. Pointy. And probably a possible pest.

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/golden-thistle

Milk Thistle is easier to harvest probably. I've grown it before. The leaves are wide, the pointed bits are easy to avoid, they look ornamental.

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/milk-thistle

A cultivated cress.

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/persian-broadleaf-cress


Bambaras:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/bambaras-village-mix





Some corns:

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/gasp%C3%A9-flint-corn

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/delaware-blue-sweet-corn

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/brindle-corn

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/pawnee-eagle-flour-corn

https://www.seedways.org/product-page/pawnee-red-skidi-popcorn

[Jeremy Weiss]

Thank you.
Oh BTW, the Ghanian guy I mentioned is this one (https://www.jibrilenterprise.com/
He's been pretty good to me. And though it makes them expensive the fact he DOES get phytos means you actually GET your seeds (actually, when you want something, it's usually better to contact him and tell him what you want rather than just hit the buy buttons, he can put more than one thing on each Phyto and save you a lot of money that way.)

[Jeremy Weiss]

I DEFINITELY don't need any more kinds of thyme. Between the Spanish Thyme (a.k.a. Cuban oregano), the conehead thyme (a.k.a. biblical hyssop) and the Syrian oregano, I have all the thyme like herbs I can handle (in fact, I'm probably skipping the conehead in next year's buys since it is SO STRONG I can't actually use it for anything much (the flowerheads have so much thymol they are actually PAINFUL to consume.)Plus, I found a source for Chinese Mint to try, and I'll need the space. Plus space to try Hooker's Chives again (different species).

Bambarras I also have a ton of. Some other company had a mix with a LOT more colors than the Roughwood one, and the only color I couldn't find from them (jet black) I managed to get from Trade Winds Fruit (I had to buy out the whole seed supply TWICE to get just eight black ones, but at least I HAVE them now.)

No, I don't have those Limas, but with six to eight different unknown types from Liberia to grow out, I'm pretty lima full at the moment. Anyway, those are all large ones, so probably wouldn't mature for me. (I've found that smaller seeded limas (butterbeans) tend to mature a BIT earlier than the big ones, so that is what I focused on. Only ONE of the limas I am planting is large seeded (and I only have three seeds of that.)

I do my own thing with corn. I usually only plant interesting ones I select myself in the fall from the various farmers market stands (with my space, I focus on ornamental purposes, not food ones.)   

[Kadence Luneman]

EFN had an update. Nanticoke squash was included! I went ahead and got 2 packets. And a packet of moringa just because.
Last year I started moringa and never got it outside. This time I'll be planting it right in the ground.

[Garrett Schantz]

Well.

I suppose, that I can make another order.

Three corns have the nitrogen fixing roots on them. And they're bred to grow well in the United States.

Another corn, has a trait that someone selected for. It's one found in teosinte - some Coen cultivars might have it. Anyways. It more or less prevents pollination from corn that doesn't have the trait.

No GMO pollen! Or, in my case "I wonder if I could use this to cross with teosinte that require a lot of effort to hybridize with".


I also kinda want to get some "Perennial Celery" seed again.

I also have some 'Searsport' Sea Plantain coming up. Have some "Perennial Chard / Beet" mix planted near those too that appear to also be germinating.

They have yet another Sea Plantain accession! (This one doesn't say limited quantities, so that's good).

Plus, a different species of "Okra" from the common type, also seems like it probably has nice flowers.

Also mentioned somewhere on here that I wanted to buy their one Kenaf variety as its probably better than the one I have.

Kentucky Coffee tree seeds from the largest tree in Pennsylvania. That also seems interesting.


Guess I might indulge a bit.

Might only buy one of the aerial rooted varieties.

I have blue sticky Japanese corn. I'd probably cross those two together.

I also wanna see what blue and orange corns give me. I'm unsure if antho genes and whatnot are fully connected to the same traits as say the orange traits in Joseph's corn that he bred.

[Garrett Schantz]

Bloody Butcher is a cool corn, I like its branching traits.

But, I'm fairly sure someone here mentioned they were wanting to breed an early multi branched variety that also has resistances to whatever or has other nice traits, like being a sweet corn.

I'm fairly sure someone said there's some corns that fit some of those categories other than bloody butcher, so using them might be a better idea.

If I can find the corn names and thread, that would be nice.

[Garrett Schantz]

I ordered some stuff from The Experimental Farm Network. Went "Oh, the things I want are going out of stock." and made an order.


Gonna list some things I ordered along with other mentionaable things.


'Monarch' Celeriac

(Apium graveolens var. rapaceum)


Chinese Pink' Celery

(Apium graveolens)


Sweet Cicely

(Myrrhis odorata)


Rouge Demi-courte de Guérande' (Red Half-Short of Guérande)

(Daucus sativus)


Polish Root Parsley

(Petroselinum crispum var. tuberosum)


'Harris Model' Parsnip

(Pastinaca sativa)


Skirret

(Sium sisarum)


Bigseed Biscuitroot

(Lomatium macrocarpum)


Seombadi (Perennial Korean Celery)

(Dystaenia takesimana)


Polish Turnip-Rooted Chervil

(Chaerophyllum bulbosum)


Cow Parsnip (California Ecotype)

(Heracleum sphondylium subsp. montanum)

(Probably actually Heracleum maximum)


Already have:

Japanese Honewort

(Cryptotaenia japonica)


Canadian Honewort

(Cryptotaenia canadensis)


Parsley

(Petroselinum crispum)


Cilantro

(Coriandrum sativum)


Cumin

(Cuminum cyminum)




Would also like Sea Celery (Apium prostratum), Scots Lovage (Ligusticum scoticum), Lovage (Levisticum officinale), Dara Queen Anne's Lace (Probably D. carota subsp. carota as that subspecies is noted to have purple / reddish flowers, the subspecies is also noted to have bitter roots, not favorable but yeah), and Chervil (Anthriscus cerefolium) as well as American Wild Carrot (Daucus pusillus).


These are all in the same family. Had some of these species before I moved and whatnot.

I more or less wanna breed a carrot with Purple Flowers using Dara Queen. If I'm correct about the subspecies, it's from a completely different region than cultivated carrots (which multiple subspecies were cultivated in different areas). This isn't just "Neat, purple flowers". It's also, me wanting to explore any genetics it may have. Most people who breed with Queen Anne's Lace probably wouldn't touch a subspecies with bitter roots for hybridization projects.

I personally would keep the plants contained as well. So they don't spread.

Some of these would just make nice perennials for bees, famine food or Perennial vegetables.

[Garrett Schantz]

I also ordered:


Corns that may have root nodules / nitrogen fixation:

'Gigante Hominy' Self-Feeding Corn Grex


'Speckled Parching' Self-Feeding Corn Grex


'Independence' Corn

Gametophytic incompatibility / Ga1s gene mixed into this landrace / population. Popcorns typically have the gene, as does teosinte.

I don't think it creates a complete incompatibility with other corn, but it does reduce crossing. I found it to be interesting.



Dobranoc Corn


'Bagalhali' Tetra Okra (Manihot Hibiscus) - Third type of this species that they've listed. So, now I have a variety from India, Korea and Japan.

Neat.


Mao Er Shi Shu (This is usually called Blue Sausage Fruit)


Cucumis anguria

Ethiopian Burr Gherkin (USDA Accession that they got, a friend grew for them)

West Indian Gherkin

(Speaking of Cucumis, C. hysterix is germinating)


Garlic Pennycress

Purple Orach (Minnesota Naturalized)

Turkish Rocket

Woolly Bean Breeders Mix

Homesteader's Kaleidoscopic Perennial' Kale Grex

PA State Champion Kentucky Coffee Tree


Red Plantain

Hermit Island Sea Plantain.


I could buy some other stuff I want. But. Yeah.

[Jeremy Weiss]

It will be interesting to see how long the "bird's egg" seed pattern trait stays in further selections from those Andean derived corns (since it is quite common in Andean populations, but quite unusual in Northern ones.) 

Since you said "cumin", this requires the sort of twisty thinking I do (as in, seeing seed growing potential in seed that is not being sold for garden use.) But one of my spice companies does sell seed for wild cumin from Afghanistan, and if you are planning to do any cumin breeding, that might be of use (it's a different genus than domestic cumin, so it would be a wide cross, but it might work.) As far as I know, they just sun dry it, so it should still be viable.

https://www.burlapandbarrel.com/collections/all/products/wild-mountain-cumin

P.S. If you DO decide to try this, pick over what you plant before you sow. As it is wild collected, this is the one spice they sell that is NOT 100% pure (more like 99.99%), and, while not likely, you COULD introduce some Middle Eastern weeds into your garden if you are not careful.