Genetic of big fruits in F1

[Adrian]

I have noted that some exeptionnal F1 giving fruits more bigs that the parents of the cross.
(Canestrino di lucca x andine cornue)x roman candle giving more big fruits that canestrino di lucca x andine cornue.

My next project will be to crossed (canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x pineaple.
Do you think that this F1 can also giving    most big fruits that the three parents of the cross?
Thoses strangers combinaisons can be usefull for recuperated the size more fast after cross with cherry tomato.

[Roland]

What F generation is youre Canestrino di lucca x andine cornue?

[Adrian]

Hi Roland, i'm ay rhe F4 generation
For canestrino di lucca x andine cornue.
But as i want explorated again the cross i sowed some F2 each year and i sowed one F1 this season for giving more of F2.

This project has currantly two ramifications.
-(Canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x roman candle currantly in F3 with some others F2 this season.
-(canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x green zebra currantly in F2

Unfortunately found the most interested F2 is very difficult.
When i grown the F2 each interested caracteristics more separated than the parents of the cross.
I don't understand how can i have a good synergy in the F2.

[Roland]

What kind of traits do you want to combine with this cross?

[Adrian]

For canestrino di (lucca x Andine cornue) x pineaple
I want combine high vigor, high yirld and high fruits size in the most part of the F2 and selected a two color fruit with dry pulpit.

[Steph S]

There are multiple genes for fruit size, which have additive effects.
So, if your F1 is larger than either parent, that indicates that their original large sizes probably came from different genes involved in size.
Size is one of the most difficult trait to recover in F2 and onward, as the multi gene effect skews toward smaller size.  Therefore to get your stacked genetics for larger size, you have to grow more F2 than would be needed to recover simple traits.

[Adrian]

The pineaple fruit crossed with canestrino di lucca x andine cornue F1 seem get fat and its for this moment the most big fruit of the bunch.I think that the crossbreeding is good.We will see if we can improved the pollinisation when the plant is very load in big fruits.

For improve the fruits size i also have thinked at a crossbreeding between orange russian 117 and big orange stripes

[Adrian]

This crossbreeding is a great sucess, the crossed fruit is the most big of the bunch.

This crossbreeding is pineaple x ( canestrino di lucca x andine cornue)

For mark the cross without attacked the peduncle i have made a node with raffia.
Again a stranger thing, i found that the crossed fruit has a green shoulder more marqued than the others.

Male parent: Canestrino x andine cornue F1

Female parent: pineaple

[Adrian]

The seeds between (canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x pineaple are germinated!
I will seeing now what will be the fruits size.

[Adrian]

I have a doubt, i have the impression that that my cross is not take.

The F1 seem small and late but she made a lot of ramifications.
Probably more small than a normal pineaple plant.
Some plants was germinate with one cotyledon instead of two with a low vigor.
At normal time the heterosis effect is so important that i see that the F1 grow more fast than thoses parents.

Alone sing that the cross is take, the pistil is thin althought that on pineaple he is big.
Pineaple is the mother.
The thin pistil is a dominant gene?
Its possible that the F1 is less vigorous than the parents?

[Tim DH]

Hi Adrian,
   The suggestion that an F1 might be less vigorous than either parent is not one I've come across before.

   Technically speaking your cross ((canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x pineaple ) is not a true F1, because, if I've understood you properly, the father (canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) is itself an F1 and will bring highly variable pollen to the cross. ..... Consequently I would not be surprised if your cross was less vigorous than the father, however it should be at least as vigorous as the least vigorous of the fathers parents!

   That would not, however, explain why your cross might be (overall) less vigorous than Pineapple. ...

[Adrian]

I don't know the start was probably bad, the seeds coats of the parents are very differents.Thr seed coat of pineaple is big and the seed coat of canestrino x andine cornue F1 is small.
The embryon on my F1 was probably small but in a seed coat of pineaple.Its can explain why some plants was one cotyledon.

I will wait and seeing at what look like the fruit.
Picture of the plant
She has germinate toward mid_march
She seem very healthy but small with a lot of ramifications.

[Adrian]

Firsts fruìts of (canestrino di lucca x andune cornue) x pineaple
The first fruit seem round and ribbed and the second seem cordiform and horned.

The signs of crossbreeding stay discrests.
I will see if the fruits are red.

[Adrian]

Other combinaison for a big fruit
This F1 is a F4 of tiny green x green giant pink crossed with a F2 of (canestrino x andine) x roman candle.
The fruits seem big for a F1

Do you think that the fruits should be again more bog if thid F1 is cgossed with (canestrino di lucca x andine cornue) x pineaple?

For the fruit size i combinate lc,sun and ovate

[Adrian]

Firsts matures fruits of (canestrino di lucca x andine cornue)x pineaple F1
The plant is finaly very strong but the started was very late