Breeding short season cold climate luffa

[Mike Crane]

As season draws to end, first freeze is two days from now most likely. Out of the 15-20 largest luffa, 7 are from same plant and all luffa on this plant are large. Have one other plant that three large luffa on it an all luffa on it are large. It is a lighter color but the luffa started out as dark green and also has a slightly raised pattern.


These will be my primary selection for seeds next year and do plan on bagging a few flowers and manually pollinating.

Next year will also be more proactive in tagging plants with colored yard or other markings and planting a bit further apart so the jungle effect will be less. This will also make an earlier selection possible for bagging flowers and manually pollinating some crosses. I allowed other vining vegetables - mainly beans and butternut - to intermingle which was not a good idea. Had more leaf damage this year than last and believe that both some blight and insect pests came from the intermingled plants.

As have started the end of season garden cleanup have noticed what looks like some vole damage on several plants and they produced no luffa and stems have already died. Did have mole/vole problem this year s did not get the barrier around perimeter due to time spent cutting up down trees.

[Jeremy Weiss]

This may sound like and odd question, but what color are the seeds in your luffas?

I ask mainly because a recently got seed for an F1 hybrid called the apple luffa (which appears to be sort of the lemon cucumber of luffas, short and wide).  The seed is the same as a normal cylindrica in shape (smooth sides, "skirt"). But it's white/tan, instead of black. In fact, if I had enough of it (which I don't currently) I'd almost be tempted to squeeze one of the seeds to see if the seed coat is woody (like a watermelon or a "normal" luffa seed) or corky (like a pumpkin seed)

I'd think that it was someone selling under ripe seed, but BOTH of the sellers of this particular luffa show it with white seed, and I found another seller selling a different kind that is also white

[Ocimum]

Jeremy Weiss: I also found a huge Luffa cylindrica in India which had white seeds inside. Otherwise it looked the same as the black seeded ones, and it was definitively ripe.

Someone managed to get ripe fruits of a luffa outdoors in a colder climate? Here in central Europe, even if it was one of the hottest summers, almost in the polytunnel, but started a bit too late and with a sunburn. I also need to find day length adapted varieties for here, if anyone has a source...

[Jeremy Weiss]

Jeremy Weiss: I also found a huge Luffa cylindrica in India which had white seeds inside. Otherwise it looked the same as the black seeded ones, and it was definitively ripe.

Someone managed to get ripe fruits of a luffa outdoors in a colder climate? Here in central Europe, even if it was one of the hottest summers, almost in the polytunnel, but started a bit too late and with a sunburn. I also need to find day length adapted varieties for here, if anyone has a source...

I can believe it. Recently, I sorted through a bag of dried thorn gourds (another member of the luffa genus) and the seed I managed to find was both black, medium brown and tan, with some of the tan looking just as ripe and full as the other two.

Though, as yet, I have only seen the smooth seeded luffas have multiple colors. The textured seeded ones (like actangulata) seem to all be black. However, as there are a LOT of intergrades between the smooth and the textured, maybe there are white textured as well.)

[UnicornEmily]

What is a thorn gourd?  I was curious and tried to look it up, but all Google would show me was a Cucurbita pepo called "Crown of Thorns."  I'm guessing that's not what you mean.

[Jeremy Weiss]

No, what I meant is Luffa echinata. It's used in Ayurvedic medicine in India.

Besides the two vegetable ones, cylindrica/aegyptica (smooth luffa) and actangulata (ridged gourd, or Chinese okra) there are a whole bung of tiny fruited members of the genus spread around the India, southeast Asia area (just how many I can't really tell, since some of the domestic ones are listed as being Luffa by some sellers and Tricosanthes (snake gourd) by others. L. operculata is semi common Native seeds used to sell that one. And there was one seed I found in my searches that turned out to be another one (it did grow, but the cat tore it in half before it flowered.   

[UnicornEmily]

Oh, fascinating!  I thought there were only two species of luffa!

Botany keeps reminding me that nature is way more varied and full of differences than we tend to think. 

[Jeremy Weiss]

Oh, fascinating!  I thought there were only two species of luffa!

Botany keeps reminding me that nature is way more varied and full of differences than we tend to think. 

You think Luffa is big, wait until you look up Mormordica (the bitter melons). There, you have members used for their bitterness (bitter melon itself), used for their sweetness (Monkfruit), used AS fruit (Gac) and forms that go from trailing vines to obscure caudex members growing in the deserts of Africa!

 And the crazy thing is the reason I know this is that all of these things occasionally show up when I d my searches. I was finding kemarogam (a kind of snake gourd) seed years before I knew what it was. Ditto Murkia (technically a gourd, but looks like a small bright red berry with white stripes all over it.) There are STILL seeds I have found I have no clue as to the identity of (I only identified my "hellweed" as being Devil's Horsewhip about a month ago).

[UnicornEmily]

Monkfruit is related to bitter melon?!

I . . . would not have expected that at all . . .

I dearly would like to grow monkfruit, but it doesn't seem suited to my climate even a tiny bit.

[Jeremy Weiss]

Monkfruit is related to bitter melon?!

I . . . would not have expected that at all . . .


So I was told, though looking on the web, it seems to be in it's own genus now, Siratia



I dearly would like to grow monkfruit, but it doesn't seem suited to my climate even a tiny bit.

No, it's tropical (I've heard that stevia will grow up here, though).

[UnicornEmily]

Yeah, I'm definitely planning to grow stevia.  It has a very mild bitter aftertaste, so I prefer monkfruit, but it's growable here, and it tastes good, so stevia it is!

I'm also interested in serendipity berry, which seems similar to monkfruit in how it's used, but unfortunately, it's also a tropical plant.  And a super rare one, to boot.

And miracle fruit is *also* tropical only . . .  (Pouts.)

[Jeremy Weiss]

There something else called miracle plant, I think, but that's tropical as well.

Though if you DID want to try miracle fruit, Jibril enterprises on Etsy carries it (along with fresh fruit and dried fruit pills) and he has been very reliable to me with regards to getting seeds to my hands (he actually REMEMBERS you need a phyto) But contact him personally if you want anything, since he can then put everything on one phyto and save you money (shipping is free, so you don't have to worry about that.)
 

[Ocimum]

Hi,
I have just seen this video about a luffa growing company
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktsQ0l5a7xg

Not a fan of a monopoly with patented cuts, but their luffas look really huge!

[Garrett Schantz]

Rubus chingii v. suavissimus is probably cold hardy in most places. It's leaves can be used as an artificial sweetener.

Good luck finding seeds or plants though.

It's also a perennial sorta shrub rather than a cane if I recall. Thornless.

[Garrett Schantz]

No, what I meant is Luffa echinata. It's used in Ayurvedic medicine in India.

Besides the two vegetable ones, cylindrica/aegyptica (smooth luffa) and actangulata (ridged gourd, or Chinese okra) there are a whole bung of tiny fruited members of the genus spread around the India, southeast Asia area (just how many I can't really tell, since some of the domestic ones are listed as being Luffa by some sellers and Tricosanthes (snake gourd) by others. L. operculata is semi common Native seeds used to sell that one. And there was one seed I found in my searches that turned out to be another one (it did grow, but the cat tore it in half before it flowered.   

https://www.nativeseeds.org/products/m012


They're selling it again.




https://kitazawaseed.com/products/gourd-seeds-chinese-okra

These guys have Wax gourds, Tetsukabuto - plus Tinda gourds under the wrong species name.


I haven't seen species name to indicate that they sell both species.



It's also seeming difficult for me to source other Cucurbits, in the United States.


https://www.etsy.com/listing/1129921723/10-seeds-apple-luffa-taiwan-gourd?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_e-home_and_living-food_and_drink-herbs_and_spices_and_seasonings-herbs_and_spices&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjwjaWoBhAmEiwAXz8DBdPdxxukKKJxbEewmWMgHn0_rXu0e1dQm4mEUvziYilzqKuv60-v7hoCiqcQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_12574416612_122093303920_507799058343_aud-1408996296215:pla-306107311649_m__1129921723_409871100&utm_custom2=12574416612&gclid=CjwKCAjwjaWoBhAmEiwAXz8DBdPdxxukKKJxbEewmWMgHn0_rXu0e1dQm4mEUvziYilzqKuv60-v7hoCiqcQAvD_BwE

That extremely long link, has some Taiwan Apple Luffa / Gourd.



Luffa echinata, I don't know much about. Other than it's potentially harmful to health.


It's also possible that making a less toxic one would remove medicinal purposes.



There may be three loofah species native to the New World.

Probably, all in South America.



https://theseedstead.com/ouma-s-african-loofah

I got these as free seed before. I'll see if I can't find them.



While I'm not longer in Zone 6, earlier Loofahs still sound really nice.



Earlier Loofas may result in having full on sponges, very quickly.

Faster growing fruits, could give smaller green edible fruits for small amounts of time.


I'd imagine that the goal wouldn't involve making a edible when ripe luffa.

So, a short season luffa may involve having a short period of having edible luffas, just because they'd also preferably need to give out viable seed as well.


I don't believe that Luffas that are picked when young, become too spongey. Even when left to sit for awhile.


So, an early plant that's massively productive, could be allowed to set some mature fruit and the others would just be immediately picked when they're small enough.


I'd encourage crossing multiple species, if able.

Different species have different genes and histories, and likely different possible genes that could make a hardier luffa.