Sungold & exploring various "fruity" notes

[William Schlegel]

This year, I also grow "The One". The original sibling group, from the original fruit (I think).

I've gotten some good ones every year from its descendants but also some duds every year. I'm pretty sure you wrote about other tomatoes just as good. Including perhaps the parent which might have been something like S35,S36, or S37. I think you sent me a packet of those three mixed for my 2021 growout. 

[Vicki]

https://ediblemadison.com/stories/the-quest-for-flavor-trials-for-taste-in-organic-tomatoes-at-uw-madison

I came up on this article about my local university's tomato breeding project, and it's reassuring their general methodology is what I'm trying to do (trial possible varieties, make crosses between heirlooms and hybrids, grow out several generations, taste tests).

I wonder if they're also looking at crossing Sungold as one of the hybrids, or are selecting hybrids based mainly on disease resistance and then choosing heirlooms for the desired flavor. I have a feeling the latter makes more sense as Sungold isn't the best for disease resistance. Also they have to balance taste with productivity/ disease resistance whereas I really only care about taste and if the plant survives in my garden (which honestly is not a high bar).

It will be interesting to see what varieties are released as a result of their project.

[Vicki]

I just ate my first tomato of the season, which happened to be a Sungold, of course.

[KaguyaCloud]

Here's the source website from that article if you want to contact the breeders themselves:
https://eorganic.info/node/12999

Here's a research article on their project:
https://journals.ashs.org/view/journals/hortsci/59/9/article-p1299.xml

Main focus seems to be on disease, which is fair. Without knowing good disease resistance, there may not be a point in growing anything tasty. However, their brix values are incredibly low for a high quality, home grown tomato. The fact that their scale in figure 3 for brix(4.0-5.5) is barely half way near 10 is disappointing.

To compare, Sun Gold has a brix value of 8-10. Other varieties bred by Frosti in Tomato Junction were up to 10-14(lowest value was 9).

In my own opinion, there needs to be a focus in creating legacy tomatoes high in flavor and high in sweetness. At least for the Japanese Company that created Sun Gold, Tokita Seeds, they seem to have achieved that with flying colors.

[KaguyaCloud]

I actually bought a book called "Grow for Flavor" by James Wong. I'll list the tomatoes and summarize what the author recommended. Due note, he's based in the UK, so some varieties are UK focused. He's tried about 400 tomatoes.

• Rosella Cherry: Bred by Gourmet Genetics. Intense, fruity flavor but leaning towards berry notes. Very sweet. Low acid, umami aftertaste. I personally have grown this myself and am using it to improve the flavor of micro dwarf tomatoes.
• Tomaccio: A good tomato for sun drying.
• Flamingo: Very sweet and incredibly fragrant.
• San Marzano: Good for sauces. Slightly spicy with a very rich aroma.
• Gardener's Delight: Good classic tomato flavor. However, hard to find true seeds.
• Corazon(F1): Sweet and tangy.
• Pink Brandywine: Gutsy old fashion tomato flavor.
• Russian Rose: Explosive flavor of sweetness, intense umami, and a rich tanginess. Flavor lingers in the mouth. Poor yields and spindly plants.
• Belriccio: Intense classic tomato flavor.
• Sun Gold: High sugar content and bright fruity taste.
• Yellow Pear: High yield. Tropical flavor that is a cross between apricot and a pineapple(however I've heard that it can taste quite bland depending on growing conditions).
• Tangerine: Sweet, exotic fruit flavor.
• Ildi: Sweet/tart flavor like sweet corn kernels.
• Orange Paruche(F1): Lychee passion fruit fragrance. Syrupy sweet.
• Artisan Sunrise Bumble Bee: Mealy, but rich tasting.
• Green Zebra: Very umami and zesty.
• Green Envy: Lingering sweetness and very tangy.
• Clackamas Blueberry: Sweet with hints of plum and blackberry, but with a very smoky tobacco flavour.

I hope this helps you out.

[Vicki]

Kaguya, that helps a ton! And I just replied to your post on Tomato Junction as well. Thanks for all the great info and help 

I may have to add Rosella and Tangerine and perhaps others to my shortlist. The taste description for Clackamas Blueberry sounds fascinating- I want to try one just to see if I taste the same notes.

[KaguyaCloud]

There's also Miss Tee's ranked list of cherry tomatoes as well:

"I think you're going to have to try a bunch yourself and find what works for you. I had pretty high expectations of some positively reviewed varieties, but many of those are not my favourites. Perhaps my taste buds or growing conditions are a bit different than most.

Based mainly on taste, but then sometimes production issues or extreme splitting.

Excellent, will grow again:
Ambrosia Gold
Amy's Apricot
Candy Sweet Icicle
Chocolate Pear
Iva's Red Berry
Rosella
Tel Aviv Train
Sunshine Yellow
Sweet Aperitif

Good - May grow again if I run out of new options:
Brad's Atomic Grape
Ditmarsher
Green Doctors
Medovaya Kaplya
Rebel Alliance
Snow White
Santium Sunrise
Sun Gold
Sunrise Bumblebee

Average, unlikely to grow again since there are so many new ones to try:
Black Cherry
Chocolate Cherry
Blush
Gru Vee
Isis Candy
Karma Pink
Karma Purple MF
Karma Miracle
Maglia Rosa
Pink Bumblebee
Purple Bumblebee
Sweet Gold
Sweet Million

Meh, will never grow again:
Black Vernissage
Butter Apple
Galina's Yellow
Gold Nugget
Sweetie Cherry
Yellow Pear

Am trialling White Currant and a bunch of other small ones like Matt's WC and Mexico Midget to compare this year. Plus about 10 more new ones."

I went into an obsessive rabbit hole trying to find good flavor without knowing what the tomatoes even taste like. If only I had a yard. I wish Tomatoville was still up, they had a lot of good posts on flavor.

[Alex]

Yellow Pear is a good variety of tomato, heat-resistant, but it must be fully ripe, otherwise a wrong decision will be made, besides, fictitious varieties may be hidden under this name. In addition, kumato has a special fruity taste, pay attention to this too. But nothing is tastier than Kamatis na ligaw.

[Vicki]

Kaguya, thanks so much for the lists. I wish I had more space to trial different varieties but I can't complain- I have more space now to garden than I have ever had before.

Alex, thanks for more information about those varieties. I have never heard of Kamatis na ligaw.

[reed]

I have one I call "Best Ever Sweet Red Cherry" because it is the best I've ever tasted. I've had red and yellow currant tomatoes growing wild for nearly thirty years. Six or eight years ago some got crossed on their own and, they have been growing mostly wild ever since. A couple years ago I found a little yellow one that is very good, so I plant it on purpose. Last year the best one ever showed up, it's a bit bigger and red. This year I am culling all volunteer current types in the garden so as to restart the volunteer population with just them.

I've noticed that a lot of things effect the flavor of a tomato. The degree of ripeness, the time of day it's picked, how long it has been picked before eating, the temperature when it's picked and so on. Many to me are best only in specific conditions. Best Ever Sweet Red Cherry doesn't taste exactly the same, for example picked in the cool morning verses hot afternoon but it is always good. Even late in the season when frost is threatening and most tomatoes are rather blah; it is still good. 

[KaguyaCloud]

As an exclusively indoor grower, I've noticed that maximum sweetness is achieved when the fruit is attached to the plant and when the sepals of the fruit start to yellow.

However, like reed has said, the best tomatoes taste good despite bad weather and time of day.

[Riley V]

I think this blog post helps really explain alot of the geneotype and phenotype of orange tomatoes, and addresses most of the questions asked earlier in the thread
https://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-color-of-tomatoes.html?m=1

[Tim DH]

Thanks for posting that link Riley, its an interesting read.