Outredgeous in Suttons Catalogue

[triffid]

Suttons Seeds over here in the UK has listed Outredgeous lettuce in their spring catalogue and online. https://www.suttons.co.uk/Gardening/Vegetable-Seeds/All-Vegetable-Seeds/Lettuce-Outredgeous_167882.htm#167882

Which is a big deal! They're one of the most well-known garden supply companies in Britain...
Sadly it would seem they've conveniently omitted the OSSI-Pledge and any other relevant information.

[Carol Deppe]

When Frank Morton Pledged Outredgeous lettuce, it was long after the variety had been released and circulating for years. We call such varieties ex post, that is, Pledged after released and circulating. Unfortunately, this means many, even most people received the variety without the Pledge or are buying it from people who released it without the Pledge. Those who did so are under no obligation to put the Pledge on seeds they distribute. So there is forever two statuses of seed for the variety, some Pledged, some not. Seed companies that are associated with OSSI already normally put the Pledge on their distribution of that seed, even if they are propagating from a line of unPledged seed. This "recaptures" part of the seed stream for OSSI. But non-OSSI partners are not likely to do so and may not even know about OSSI.

One implication is that it would be difficult or impossible for OSSI to actually actively protect a variety that was Pledged ex post. The person who was trying to claim ownership or privatize an OSSI-Pledged variety or derivative could always say they got the material unPledged, and quite possibly did. (Some people say the OSSI Pledge can't protect anything. But our lawyers say they think it is legally binding. And we are expecting to need to protect a variety legally sooner or later. The breeding history data and release and Pledge dates we collect when you Pledge your variety are asked for in part so we will have what we need to legally protect the variety if we need to.) I personally, think it is unlikely we would ever be able to protect an ex post variety, however. So why do we accept them? Because they add to OSSI's list and help build the platform and community.

However, you can see why I strongly urge breeders to breed their varieties BEFORE they start distributing them instead of after. And if you distribute breeding material before you release a finished variety, I urge you to OSSI-Pledge the breeding material as early as possible.

[triffid]

Thanks for shedding light on the status of some OSSI varieties - so am I correct in understanding that it is physical seed that is covered by IP and not varieties, as they are 'intangible'?

[rowan]

I am working on a variety, well have been for a number of years now but I am only now close to it being stable due to a couple of problems with colour understanding. I have had a lot of enquiries in it already from commercial interests and I really hope that OSSI sticks as I think it might be something others will want to breed from to get it better - and it can be better, at least in flavour IMO.
Ahh, I think next year will be the tell. Anyway, I hope that the OSSI pledge is recognised and respected in Australia when I do get it pledged. This is why I put information about it on my website last year so at least I have some evidence that I developed it. Rascal Zucchini.

[Carol Deppe]

Thanks for shedding light on the status of some OSSI varieties - so am I correct in understanding that it is physical seed that is covered by IP and not varieties, as they are 'intangible'?

Varieties may be intangible, but so are songs and inventions. Intangibility is not the issue.

The IP is the legal rights granted by the state with respect to the situation. So for copyright of a book or song, for example, USA grants the author copyright automatically as of the writing, with or without any application or filing. With respect to plant varieties, no automatic IP exists. Those who want IP have to apply for a patent or PVP. Or use licenses or bag tag agreements. Patents and PVPs are binding whether the recipient of the material has been properly informed about the status or not. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse.) Licenses and bag tag agreements operate under contractual law, and are valid only if the two parties agree. So you aren't bound by a bag tag or license you don't know about. But it can be claimed that you obtained the material illegitimately.

[Carol Deppe]

I am working on a variety, well have been for a number of years now but I am only now close to it being stable due to a couple of problems with colour understanding. I have had a lot of enquiries in it already from commercial interests and I really hope that OSSI sticks as I think it might be something others will want to breed from to get it better - and it can be better, at least in flavour IMO.
Ahh, I think next year will be the tell. Anyway, I hope that the OSSI pledge is recognised and respected in Australia when I do get it pledged. This is why I put information about it on my website last year so at least I have some evidence that I developed it. Rascal Zucchini.

The critical thing is you should if possible avoid distributing seed until the variety is Pledged. In addition, I suggest you Pledge it right away. We can put a hold on listing it on the OSSI website until you are ready to release it. Or list it with a release date a year or two hence. (We usually don't Pledge varieties until seed is available, but do so in situations like this, especially for someone who, like you, is already an OSSI contributor.) That way we have documentation of the variety including the dates it existed and was Pledged.

[rowan]

Thanks Carol, I will do that.

[Justin Jardinier]

One implication is that it would be difficult or impossible for OSSI to actually actively protect a variety that was Pledged ex post. The person who was trying to claim ownership or privatize an OSSI-Pledged variety or derivative could always say they got the material unPledged, and quite possibly did.

However, you can see why I strongly urge breeders to breed their varieties BEFORE they start distributing them instead of after. And if you distribute breeding material before you release a finished variety, I urge you to OSSI-Pledge the breeding material as early as possible.

Thanks! I'm interested in how this would work for my situation in trying to create UI and SI population, which would I think benefit from really large grow outs for several years. I think it would be a long time until such outcrossing populations become relatively phenotypically stable, and, I assume they have to be that way to be pledged? I would be interested for others to help in growing out and selecting. What would be the best thing to do? Create a Material Transfer Agreement and have collaborators sign it before sending them seeds? Would that protect them from the corporations?

[William Schlegel]

I've gone to systematically crossing existing OSSI varieties into all my tomato projects. Also, some other projects.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

OSSI does not require stability as a prerequisite for pledging a breeding project.

[Justin Jardinier]

OSSI does not require stability as a prerequisite for pledging a breeding project.

Do you know what they judge it on? I have heard of breeding material being turned down without explanation.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

OSSI is not some faceless bureaucracy. When pledging a variety, you will be dealing with a specific individual that will give specific reasons for their decision.

[Justin Jardinier]

Well, I stand by what I said. Does anyone know the actual criteria for acceptance of breeding material? I searched the OSSI website but could not find any criteria explanation.