Top setting (not Egyptian) bulbing onions

[Mike Deyo]

I'm not sure if I am using the right terms for this. These are onions that produce top sets (cluster of small bulbs where flowers would be), when you plant a top set you get a single large onion. Planting the large onion bulb gets you topsets again. I first got one from the SESE back in the late 80's. That one I have lost. But around that time I put an ad in the local newspaper, asking for heirloom seeds that local gardeners might have. I got a letter from an Amish lady who had a top setting onion like I described above. It was a white onion, and would produce top sets, and also some flowers. Seeds were produced, but it seemed like most or all were unfilled. One year I bought some red onion sets at the supermarket, (normal red onion), grew them, and saved some bulbs overwinter to plant out the next year. They bloomed at the same time as the Amish top setting onion, and I got good seed from the Amish onion.

I planted out 50-100 seeds the next year, getting a range of color and size of onions. When I planted them out the next year, some had top sets, some divided like potato onions. Over the years I selected the better ones, and ended up with two I liked the best. One was a red potato onion, which could have good size bulbs, occassionly set a few large misformed top sets which were not good for starting new plants, and never had flowers. Unfortunately I lost that one due to onions rotting too much during storage, probably mismanagement on my part with onion maggots or disease. The other one, which I still have, is a yellow top setting onion, that stores really well, and also has a few flowers which set seed. When you plant one of the large bulbs to get top sets, the large bulb divides in the ground (like a potato onion), and each of the divided bulbs sends up a seed stalk. The bulbs in the ground that have flowered are not good for eating or storing. The first picture is of the top set stage, and then two pictures of the bulbs for eating that I get from planting the top sets.

A few years ago I saw some Red Cippoline onions for sale at the local farmers market, and I thought I would do some crossing again. I let them cross with my top setting onion, saving seed from my TS onion. The Red Cippoline bloomed later than my TS onion, but there was a bit of overlap. When I grew out my TS seed, there was one plant with a red bulb, I assume a cross. The next year I grew all three so they could cross (my TS, Red Cippoline, and the new red bulb), the red bulb plant had top sets and flowers, and I got about 50 seeds from it. I planted those seeds in 2023 and got about 50 bulbs of various colors and sizes. Those I planted this spring. There was a majority with top sets, some red and some yellow. Most of those set some seeds too. About 5-6 just had seeds, no top sets, like a normal onion. And about the same number acted just like potato onions, (I think all yellow) dividing into good storing bulbs, with no flowering stem. I'm going to save them overwinter and see what happens when I plant the topsets or potato bulbs next year. The last two pictures show one of the new topset seedlings (doesn't have seeds), and one of the new potato onion.

[A. Pel]

Nice. My potato onion project is moving forward as well. Last year one bulb of a pair produced both top sets and seeds. They were smaller top sets than yours - similar to a small pea. Unfortunately all of the topset bulbs died out over last winter - they got too wet in the greenhouse and I did not rescue them in time. Very, very annoyed at myself for that.

No top sets this year - but lots of seeds. I'll post a report on this years progress once I get it organized.

https://longkeepingapples.com/PotatoOnions.html

[Mike Deyo]

Good to hear about your project!

In my experience, pea sized top sets are too small to make it through winter storage for me. If all you had were top sets like that, with no useable basal bulb, you might be able to get them to sprout and root in late summer around harvest time, before the top sets go dormant. Similar to what Egyptian (walking) onions do. You might be able to overwinter growing outside, or growing in a pot overwinter in greenhouse.

This is how I handle my top set onions. I save the top sets over winter in a cool garage. The earlier you can plant them in the spring, the more time they have to grow and make bigger bulbs before hot weather. But I've found the top sets, being in dormant stage from storage, did not wake up well when planted out into wet cold spring soil, and often rotted. So instead I plant the top sets shallowly in a tray of seed starting peat moss, in a warmer area, 50-70F. When you see a green sprout just starting to emerge from the top set, there are usually a lot of roots underneath, and I can easily pull it out of the soft peat moss, and plant it in the garden. They will easily withstand light frosts. If there will be strong frost heaving (25F or below) it would be good to mulch lightly, or plant a bit deeper. I find it helpful to peel off loose onion skins that might make it more difficult for roots to emerge. Optimum top set size ~1/2" to 3/4". If the top set is too large when planted, the basal bulb will get too big too early, and go on to dividing and making top sets.

I do the same thing with the basal bulbs that were saved for eating, or replanting for topsets. If they don't have roots starting to emerge, then into the peat moss to get them going.

[Steph S]

Wonderful to be able to cross and get some diversity in a topsetting onion.
Our Egyptian onions do produce bulbs and occasionally flowers among the topsets but so far no viable seeds.

[reed]

My walking or Egyptian onions are basically just wild and survive all types of weather. Heat and drought kills the top growth as does cold of zero F and below, but they always come back. Unfortunately, they do not have a pleasant flavor, in fact they are awful. We use mostly just the leaves as a flavoring and mostly just in the winter.

They do bloom quite a bit along with making the top sets which can get quite large, but they have never made seeds. If I dissect a green seed capsule, I find normal looking immature white seeds, but they never finish maturing, they just dry up. It's possible that although they don't mature seeds themselves that they have contributed pollen to my other onions, but they are all so mixed up. I'll never know one way or the other.

We don't have good storage for harvested onions, so I've focused on just allowing them to do what they will in all weather in the ground. I just mixed up potato onions, top set onions, bunching onions, grocery store onions wild onions and anything else I came across. Anything that survived winter and made seeds continued in the mix. All of them now makes seeds, some make larger bulbs, some smaller bulbs and tops sets and seeds.

My favorite wild onion, which I'm not sure, but may be Allium canadense reliably makes both topsets and seeds but so far, I'm pretty sure it hasn't joined the cross-pollination party. I haven't found anything visible or flavor wise that makes me think a cross has occurred.

Walking onions are my favorites for their ability to shrug off anything weather wise but taste awful. The Allium canadense, if indeed that is what it is, has great mild flavor and also takes anything nature throws at it. I wish they would cross into the others but so far, no luck.



 

[Mike Deyo]

This article- https://hort.extension.wisc.edu/articles/egyptian-walking-onions/
says that Egyptian onions are a cross between Allium cepa and Allium fistulosa, the Welsh onion. Maybe they are unable to set normal seed?

With your onion mix, how often do you start new plants from seed? Or do you just let keep growing and multiplying in one space?

[reed]

With your onion mix, how often do you start new plants from seed? Or do you just let keep growing and multiplying in one space?

I move them around by transplanting pretty much whenever the mood hit me rather than with the season. I generally save some seed as back up but mostly I let them reseed themselves or scatter seeds as they dry down. They come up when and if it rains appropriately, mid-summer through late fall. Those that do that and live through winter and that we don't eat the next spring go to seed again. I also occasionally plant seeds that I collected and saved just to keep them from going bad in storage. I also plant them as seeds are maturing or in late summer.

I don't grow onions like most folks, as in planting in spring for harvesting large bulbs to store. I'm trying to basically turn them in a perpetuating weed that we can harvest as needed except for the hottest part of summer and coldest part of winter.

[Mike Deyo]

Do you trouble with onion maggots, or disease, growing them in the same location year after year?

[reed]

Do you trouble with onion maggots, or disease, growing them in the same location year after year?

I've never had an issue with them except for when I tried to grow leeks. I started them from seed, and they looked great but then started yellowing and drooping over. The bulbs were full of little white worms. The year after that they were in my garlic but not too bad and fortunately, I haven't seen them since.

I don't keep them in the same spots permanently, especially with seeds, I generally sow them in different spots and harvest out the old patches once the new ones are going good. I do have some onion and garlic patches that just grow on their outside the garden itself that have been there for years in basically the same spots, but even they move around over the years as older plants die out

[Richard Watson]

They say that its a cross, but I'm not so sure. The photo attached taken this morning(5th Nov) is of my walking onions that are F2's. The hand pollinating I did with both the F1 and F2 lines are 100% identical to not only each each other but also the original line, surely there would be some variation if they were in deed a cross, I think they are a mutation. In the photo the plants at the front are base onion planted which produce the largest topset, and behind are shorter plants, there are the best topset bulbils, these ive found produce the best base onions. Now that Ive given up on trying for F3 seed, this Ive found is the best way to grow productive size onions.