Author Topic: Fava breeding  (Read 1195 times)

Richard Watson

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #15 on: 2018-12-22, 11:45:11 AM »
I use dry broad beans reasonably often. I deal with skins by sprouting the seeds first then popping them out of their skins. It’s a little tedious. I’m going to look round for some loose skinned cultivars!

So how do you prepare them after that Ray
Changeable year round climate with warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
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Raymondo

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #16 on: 2018-12-22, 10:34:58 PM »
So how do you prepare them after that Ray

Once the skins are gone I cook the beans. They then might end up in a stew, or just mashed with some oil, garlic and a few spices, similar to hummus.
Ray
Mildly acidic clay loam over clay and ironstone; temperate climate modified by altitude (1000m); avg rainfall 780mm; usually wet summers and dry winters.

Ilex

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #17 on: 2019-04-22, 04:09:46 PM »
My son has a fava bean breeding project.

I had a landrace, and he selected a crossed plant that tasted really good (raw).  From there, he selects those that grow well and produce well.  Then tries (raw) all plants, and keeps the best tasting.  Secondary selection trait is number of seeds per pod.  We started with 3, and now most are 5 seeds per pod.

I have a machine to peel fava beans, so more seeds per pods means peeling is faster.

We don't have time to do selection cooked, but taste is superb so far.

I didn't continue with my landrace after selling some to a restaurant.  They complained that they were difficult to cook, as they had different cooking times.  Some cooked fast while others were undercooked. 

Steve1

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #18 on: 2019-04-22, 06:24:50 PM »
Another trait worth looking out for is this thin skin trait. No need to peel. Like Ray I tend to use favas dry and make ful medame which is a traditional middle eastern dip served with fresh still warm flat bread.
Egyptian is the variety I mostly grow for this and also has the thin skin trait.
My kids believe it or not love raw frozen favas and peas.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #19 on: 2019-04-22, 06:40:40 PM »
Do they eat them while they are still frozen?

My favas are in bloom, or at least, the ones in my home garden are.  The ones in the allotment, the "gourmet" ones, Red Epicure, Perla and Karmazyn, were totally eaten by something in March while I was travelling - perhaps by rabbits - not a scrap of anything left to show there had been lots of plants all winter.

So maybe I will try re-sowing Perla and Karmazyn now, as instructed by the packet.  I've never sown favas in spring before.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Ilex

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #20 on: 2019-04-23, 01:27:12 AM »
In Spain, fava beans are eaten quite tender. If eaten bigger, skin selection will be important.


For dry usage, I would think seeds per pods won't matter.

Doro

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #21 on: 2019-04-23, 01:28:51 AM »
I had planted my last spare F2 seed early in pots in the greenhouse, they are up already and moved outside. But I need to widen the genetic base of this cross after loosing the big batch of F2 last summer.
So since my soil is finally thawing, well at least in some areas of the garden. I sowed the parent lines (Rönnäs and Crimson Flowered) side by side, to produce more F1 seed. There might even pop up some F1 in the Crimson Flowered line already, it is the old original seed batch where I had the first crosses appear.
Fingers crossed that we are not going into a hot and dry summer again. To be a little more safe I'm not interplanting them with the potatoes, they got their own little garden bed this year. If I have to I'll actually water the broad beans this year lol

Steve1

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #22 on: 2019-04-23, 06:12:19 AM »
Do they eat them while they are still frozen?


Oh yes, frozen solid. They aren't bad actually. Had to try them myself just to see. The flavors are less pronounced but nonetheless still broad beany.

Kai Duby

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #23 on: 2019-04-29, 09:26:56 PM »
I really like the idea of winter planting favas and having them come up first thing in the spring because no matter how early I plant them in the spring they don't seem to want to come up until nearly a month later and by that time the heat is getting cranked up for summer.
 Joseph When you plant in November do you irrigate them at all/ stick them in wet ground and how early do you irrigate them in the spring?

I recently found a feral fava that must have come from a patch of small seeded types I grew last year. It is already a good 2 weeks ahead of the favas I planted.

Another trait that I'd like to select for is wind resistance. Right now as the little favas are poking their heads up there is a consistent 15-20mph wind blowing likely until mid-May. Last year they really didn't like that. They take the cold but the wind was scorching the leaves pretty bad so I hope to find some that will stand up to that kind of abuse.  Have a local variety now that's been grown in this area for nearly a century so I'm hoping it can add a bit of eolian toughness. 
San Luis Valley, CO. >7,500'. Zone3-4. Low rainfall: 8-10''. Low Humidity. High winds.

Kai Duby

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #24 on: 2019-04-30, 08:13:15 AM »
I forgot to mention another trait that I think is very interesting in favas: insects! And I'm not just talking about beneficial pollinators.

Next to sunflowers the favas certainly attracted the next best slew of bugs. The first year I grew them I noticed a ton of ant activity all over them. When I looked closer I noticed that the ants were congregating around these perfect round spots near the base of the leaves. From what it looked like they were licking these spots pretty adamantly! The spots were on just about the exact same place on the leaves wherever they occurred, which makes me think that it is something the plant creates to attract things like ants. Likely a sugary secretion. At first I wondered if the ants might be cultivating some kind of fungus but, when I looked at the population as a whole, the plants with the black spots and ants were MUCH more vigorous than the others. In fact, until that point I was wondering why some of the plants were looking like they were about to drop dead. Turns out that all of the near-death plants that I observed lacked the black spots. This was Josephs fava mix by the way.

I suspect that attracting insects for foliar inoculation may be a great trait to select for. Insects traveling from one plant to another are bound to transfer beneficial microbes (and I suppose in bad cases disease organisms), which from what I've been reading about things like endophytic diazatrophs(leaf inhabiting nitrogen fixers) and other similar organisms, may be a key component of healthy plants.
Add to that that little ants devouring delicious leaf excretions are probably more likely to fight for the health of their plant when invaders come around.
San Luis Valley, CO. >7,500'. Zone3-4. Low rainfall: 8-10''. Low Humidity. High winds.

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #25 on: 2019-04-30, 09:51:26 AM »

The most reliable fall planted favas for me are those that I plant the day before winter snowcover is expected.  This spring, about 15% of the plants survived that were planted about two weeks earlier than that. In general, small plants tend to winterkill for me.

I only irrigate during June, July, and August. Some years as late as mid-September. Anything grown during the rest of the year depends on rainfall or soil moisture.

I do not irrigate fall planted favas until June. By then, both the fall planted and the spring planted favas are already flowering. Sometimes, I have planted small fava plants as soon as the snow melts. Sometimes I pre-sprout the fava seeds, and plant them a couple days later with radicles already emerged.

My fields are all wide open with no shade. One thing that might be interesting to explore is planting favas in partial shade. Perhaps the cooler temperatures would help them be more productive in the desert. 

Kai Duby

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #26 on: 2019-05-10, 01:13:10 PM »
Barely out of the ground and the little black ants are all over them. They seem to travel along the leaf margin and periodically dip under the leaves.
San Luis Valley, CO. >7,500'. Zone3-4. Low rainfall: 8-10''. Low Humidity. High winds.

Kai Duby

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #27 on: 2019-05-10, 01:16:59 PM »
Joseph My field is all wide open as well. Last year I experimented with interplanting big sunflowers between the fava rows and it seemed that it helped some. I'm trying the same thing this year with sunflower every 2-3ft. between the favas. They tend to get big and start really shading the ground around the time the favas are flowering.
San Luis Valley, CO. >7,500'. Zone3-4. Low rainfall: 8-10''. Low Humidity. High winds.

Olaf Nurlif

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #28 on: 2019-05-10, 02:36:13 PM »
I think popcorn can be too dry to pop, and probably favas can be, too.  I'll put some of mine in a jar with a wee bit of water for a while and then try.

Popcorn (usually?) has the best "expansion" rate at ca 13,5% seed moisture content.
If it's higher than that the water in the seed will expand too fast and the pericarp will split before enough pressure is built up in the seed.
If it's lower than that there's simply not enough water in the seed to build up enogh pressure and it will not pop or taste rather hard/chewy.

You would have to put the seeds in an environment with about 65% relative humidity for about 1-2 weeks to get it that wet.
In our conditions corn seed usually dries to under 10% seed moisture content. That's nice for mid term seed storage but bad for popping.

Of course you can also calculate/estimate the seed moisture content and then calculate the amount of water needed to get a certain amount of corn seeds to 13-14% seed moisture content. Just use a sealed container as you already mentioned.


Has anybody testet if popping quality of Cicer/Hannan Popbean and/or Nunas is better at a certain seed moisture level?
I have to admit that I am having big trouble getting our Hannan Popbeans to "pop" properly and consistently...
A bag of them is waiting for a small experiment but I will only be able to do that next winter.

Edit: Sorry, I just realised there are some papers available about popping chickpeas because it is common in India and other countries..
i.e. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0023643815300104
I will read a bit and maybe report back!
« Last Edit: 2019-05-10, 03:04:21 PM by Olaf Nurlif »

gmuller

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Re: Fava breeding
« Reply #29 on: 2019-05-14, 10:42:01 PM »
I threw in some favas in a mixed plot a few years ago, since nothing else was around to play with in winter. I let them cross, replanted in a non-irrigated plot , and picked the survivors. They are growing at the moment, but since I'm leaving this house in a month, i will have to replant at the new house.
Selection objectives for me would be - disease resistance, resistance to lodging, flavour, flower color, seeds per pod.
Since I primarily eat the green seeds, which usually require double shelling (Blanch the green seeds, refresh in cold water, then slip off the tough outer skin to reveal emerald green deliciousness !)finding a very thin skinned variety at the green seed stage would be great. I've tried the very young pods cooked whole, but find them way too fibrous to be enjoyable. A low fiber young pod would be great too. A couple of plants from one of my random growouts had shiny pods - I didn't eat them, but they might have a more attractive mouth feel in the whole-cooked-pod scenario.
Lots of colorful flowers just add joy to the garden - I intend to mix up the red-flowered, the chocolate flowered, and the white flowered to see what happens. As a money crop, a colleague of mine supplies coloured bud and flower tips in punnets to top end restaurants as garnish - just a thought for an alternate use/breeding target might be a particularly floriferous line in multi colours with flowers with a long shelf life.
Can't wait to move to my new garden.
GM