Author Topic: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast  (Read 1424 times)

Carol Deppe

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Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« on: 2018-12-03, 11:06:15 PM »
Breeding Goldini Zucchini (interview with Carol Deppe). Podcast. OSSI has sponsored a series of podcasts on plant breeding. Each podcast features a particular OSSI-Pledged variety and a 35 - 45 minute interview with the breeder on how she/he bred the variety. The interviewer, Rachel Hultengren, herself has a degree in plant breeding, and is really first rate. This interview with me on Goldini was the first. Here's the link:  https://osseeds.org/free-the-seed-podcast-01-goldini-zucchini/

rowan

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #1 on: 2018-12-04, 01:56:10 AM »
Thanks Carol, that was great
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Andrew Barney

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #2 on: 2018-12-05, 09:37:46 AM »
Thanks for posting this Carol. I listened to it a few weeks ago and thought it was awesome. It's a variety I want to grow now.

Nicholas Locke

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #3 on: 2018-12-05, 04:14:59 PM »
I Love these podcasts! its a great way to hear how different breeders create their masterpieces.!
"Maybe" said the farmer...

Raymondo

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #4 on: 2018-12-09, 06:57:47 PM »
All interesting podcasts, thanks Carol.
Ray
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Andrew Barney

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #5 on: 2018-12-29, 07:59:18 AM »
Where is the best place to get seeds for the Goldini Zucchini?

I read there is little seed to share right now?

Carol Deppe

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #6 on: 2019-02-03, 12:49:40 AM »
Where is the best place to get seeds for the Goldini Zucchini?

I read there is little seed to share right now?
Only place to get Goldini, as far as I know, is my own seed company. Click on my website link and see my 2019 seed catalog. Yes, there is seed available.

Ellendra

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #7 on: 2020-02-04, 04:06:54 PM »
Quote
Someone was looking around for Goldini over on Homegrown Goodness not long ago. Wonder if Carols 2020 catalogue will be out soon?


Be aware, for the last 2 years she has been cashing people's checks but not filling their orders. The first time, she gave a long apology after a year of silence, and promised to fill all the back-orders if people just contacted her, but as far as I've seen she still hasn't filled a single order during that time. 2019 orders also weren't filled, but the checks were cashed, and there has been no communication whatsoever. If anyone here has gotten their order from 2018 or 2019, I'd be curious to know, because in every gardening forum I frequent, not a single person has gotten their seeds.

I hate to say things like this, because I respect her work, and I think the varieties she's developed are awesome. But I kind of hope she doesn't put out a 2020 catalog. There's talk on some forums of reporting her for fraud.

I even tried to contact her through a private message on this forum, and offered to help process and package orders. No response.

I suggest looking for her varieties elsewhere. I've been putting together a list of alternate sources for her varieties. I'll keep an eye out for that one.
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Walk

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #8 on: 2020-02-05, 06:58:54 AM »
I was one of the folks looking for Goldini seeds. I tried contacting by her e-mail earlier this winter to see if she would have seed available and never received a reply. I had seen several postings about her not filling orders so did not send any money but would have if she had answered. I've given up on the idea of growing this fine variety.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #9 on: 2020-02-05, 06:20:14 PM »
Regardless of the specific undergoings of this particular issue, i think this is a perfect example of why just "open sourcing" seeds is not enough. Yes it is good that we know the original parent varieties if someone wishes to recreate such a variety (though i doubt anything with fluid genetics can be recreated exactly like the original), but rather that if you decide to create and pledge such a variety it needs to be accessible from multiple places and/or vendors. In this case i don't think the "Source" is the documentation, but rather the genetics and seeds themselves. If no one can find these seeds, then they might as well not exist or even be pledged in the first place.

Say... Don't i remember Carol or something on the OSSI pleding form that states you need to send them a decent sample of seeds in order be grown, kept, evaluated, saved as backup?? Does not the OSSI organization in general have backup seed of this variety in a vault somewhere?

I am not expecting the worst of this situation, but if it were, did we just loose an open source variety that easy?! If so, this is a major oversight of such a system and perhaps we can fix it from now on going forward.

How many OSSI pledged varieties are ONLY grown and maintained and sold by the original breeder? I'm willing to bet most of them. Should an online store be set up similar to Seed Savers Exchange? I know not every variety kept by SSE is sold online, but many of them are.

As a side note, and almost on the rant side, i feel like most of the breeders / OSSI head board members do not use this forum at all or nearly never post anything. How much more wonderful would this forum be if people actually used it. Heck, why haven't most breeders made a thread for each variety they've bred in order to tell us more about it, post pictures, talk about it's history, and try to upsell and market these varieties to the rest of us??

*sigh*

at least i can understand why most of the members who sign up never post. Probably because they don't feel like they have anything interesting or valuable to contribute. Far from it. Or like they are not as experienced as other breeders on the forum. I wish everybody would post whether they are planting their first plant or breeding their 700th. Okay, this paragraph did feel like a small rant. sorry. :/
« Last Edit: 2020-02-05, 06:24:19 PM by Andrew Barney »

bill

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #10 on: 2020-02-05, 07:32:41 PM »
I don't want to get in the middle of Carol's business, other than to say that she is OK and there is no question in my mind that there is no fraud going on.  I have no doubt that she will get things sorted out, even if it is taking much longer than expected.

Before a variety can be pledged, it must be available in some form, whether that means that the breeder is handing it out or a seed company is offering it.  There is no requirement on duration, so some things get offered for one year and never again.  One benefit of having them open source is that anyone is welcome to pick up varieties and offer them if they are worth keeping on the market.

There is no centralized or long term storage of OSSI varieties, although we are looking into a possible mechanism for distributing varieties that otherwise wouldn't be available.  That is not likely to happen quickly.  Having the OSSI potentially become a competitor to the mostly small seed growers who pledge varieties is a tricky subject and has so far be strongly resisted.

Trying to get the OSSI board a little more engaged with social media has been a recent subject at our board meetings.  Part of the problem is that the age of the board skews older and many of us are not really social media users at all.  I hope that we'll see a little improvement in the future.  I have to admit that I have been part of the problem as well and have good intentions to post more here.

reed

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #11 on: 2020-02-06, 07:01:28 AM »
I decided to ramble on a little here, probably won't amount to much more than that but here goes.

I wonder if there might be a way to add a retail aspect to the OSSI site but as a beneficial partner rather than a competitor. OSSI might for example offer "OSSI Foundation Seed" a concept I swiped from Carol. Anyway it would be primarily for the developers, maybe under contract to produce the seed and OSSI sells it. I've never grown on contract so don't know the normal terms of such an arrangement but I'm envisioning an arrangement where the developer/grower gets the lions share of proceeds with OSSI taking a cut to offset expense of labor, web development and so on.  The developer and anyone else could still sell independently if they want but as an OSSI variety, not as OSSI Foundation Seed. OSSI Foundation Seed only comes from OSSI. Also OSSI can only sell OSSI Foundation Seed produced by the original developer unless said developer agrees otherwise and yes, marketing is a primary part of this arrangement.

For small growers and amateur breeders such as me I think this would be a great arrangement. I could grow and sell my seeds with little or none of the effort, expense and work of becoming a seed company. Opening a seed company is a major hurdle that I and I suspect many others just can't jump. The expense and time is just too much for someone who is only growing a few crops and on a small scale.

I think from a marketing standpoint the weight and reputation of OSSI might give a boost, and maybe make it more attractive and perhaps a little profitable for more people get in the business. The OSSI page might still have links to availability of seed from other sources but also the buy direct OSSI Foundation Seed. Actual handling and shipping might even still be done by the seed companies that have means to do that.

Bigger seed companies could buy bulk OSSI Foundation Seed and if they want continue producing or contracting their own OSSI pledged varieties. They could even breed their own, branded with their name, OSSI varieties if they wanted too.

In a nut shell the breeder/grower gets the marketing boost of OSSI, OSSI skims off a few bucks to support operations.

This might also open up opportunity for distributing small quantities of experimental or early stage development seed, eliminating the need for large scale trials and long term selection projects. It might only be available as OSSI Foundation Seed a few times, maybe only once.  Anyone one who wanted to could jump in, buy it all up and come back later with their new named varieties. Off shoot of that is more germplasm gets distributed under OSSI pledge. OSSI plant breeding Starter Kits, I'd buy one once in awhile. 

Anyway I got a couple more ideas I could ramble about but that's enough for now.

« Last Edit: 2020-02-06, 07:26:54 AM by reed »

Ellendra

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #12 on: 2020-02-06, 12:31:07 PM »
I don't want to get in the middle of Carol's business, other than to say that she is OK and there is no question in my mind that there is no fraud going on.  I have no doubt that she will get things sorted out, even if it is taking much longer than expected.

I really, really hope you're right. Carol's books changed my life. I'd be happy to help in any way I can, but a lot of the trust people had in her is gone. It's going to take a long time to rebuild that, even if she sorts this all out tomorrow.

Quote
There is no centralized or long term storage of OSSI varieties, although we are looking into a possible mechanism for distributing varieties that otherwise wouldn't be available.  That is not likely to happen quickly.  Having the OSSI potentially become a competitor to the mostly small seed growers who pledge varieties is a tricky subject and has so far be strongly resisted.



There might be a way to make OSSI a partner and not a competitor. Some of Reed's suggestions are very similar to the way Baker Creek handles a lot of their varieties. The person who first offered them the variety gets first dibs on the growing contract. The grower sells the seeds, in bulk, to Baker Creek, and then Baker Creek handles the packaging and distribution.

What if OSSI had something similar, but in more of a co-op format? Instead of buying the seeds in bulk, have a commission taken out when the seeds sell. Have a standardized label for growers who don't want to design their own, but also have a reasonable range to which they could customize their labels, provided that it works with the same printer and uses the same paper. Use the same kinds of packaging machines to process the seeds, just to streamline that part.

If a grower decides that they're unwilling or unable to continue a particular variety, the co-op asks if any existing members would like to pick it up. If not, it goes in a seed bank.

(Slightly off-topic: if you ever get the chance at a behind-the-scenes tour of Baker Creek in MO, take it. That place is amazing! They have an entire warehouse full of seeds that aren't in the catalogs, because if they tried it would be the size of an encyclopedia. Even when they discontinue a seed, they keep some in their seed bank.)

How to fund this kind of a start-up? I don't know. Might it be possible to partner with an existing seed company? Or even contact several smaller seed companies and see if they'd be interested in teaming up?
Harsh winters, high winds. Temps on the edge between zones 4 and 5. Steep, north-facing slope. Soil is high in clay and rocks. Fast draining, which is a surprise for clay soil. Indicates a sandy/gravelly layer underneath.

Ellendra

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #13 on: 2020-02-12, 10:15:15 AM »
I came across a website where people can post their own seeds, and the site handles the marketing and the payment processing. Kind of like Etsy, but for seeds instead of crafts. It would still leave the grower responsible for the sorting, packaging, and shipping, but for some of us here it might still help enough to make it worthwhile.

The website is https://www.seedwise.com/
Harsh winters, high winds. Temps on the edge between zones 4 and 5. Steep, north-facing slope. Soil is high in clay and rocks. Fast draining, which is a surprise for clay soil. Indicates a sandy/gravelly layer underneath.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Breeding Goldini Zucchini Podcast
« Reply #14 on: 2020-03-07, 03:34:56 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts Bill.

As a follow up to my comments earlier I was browsing through the listed pledged varieties on the OSSI website. I'm wondering if they are out of date. There is only one variety listed under melons, and yet Joseph's oliverson lofthouse muskmelons are not listed, despite them being featured on the podcast.

In addition a bunch of pledged varieties of flint corn are linked as being sold by sandhill preservation, but the link or website is dead. So either sandhill went under or the link is bad. And if sandhill went under it comes back to my original question. What is the point of pledging a variety as open source if there is no place to source those seeds?

Until these questions can be sorted out it could be argued that the open source seed model is failing. I get why it is a tricky subject not to want to create competition, but I bet there could be a way to mitigate that. Perhaps only small seed samples could be released at a time from such a backup system. The only downside is that could create a genetic bottleneck effect.

I have no problem with the board not being media savvy, but if the board skews older then I wonder what other bias is affecting decisions on things like this. Wonder if the board needs more diversity in age or whether a new board needs to be implemented.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-07, 03:41:45 PM by Andrew Barney »