Author Topic: Salsify  (Read 1133 times)

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #30 on: 2019-03-02, 02:47:26 AM »
Sarting to look to me like the family history of these plants is too convoluted and information about them is too muddled to know for sure. I was sure yesterday that what is growing wild here is T dubius but now I'm not as sure but I am sure the (T) part is accurate so I'm gonna adopt some into my garden along with what ever else I can get a hold of to plant. Info is muddled enough that people selling and specifically identifying what they are selling might be wrong.

It might be a weed by some definition but if it grows, has nice flowers, tastes good and is nutritious then the more "weedy" the better. It never used to be here or if it did it was rare, I know that. First time I noticed it was maybe ten years ago, those big tall dandelion like seed heads are very distinctive sticking up in the weeds along the road.

I'm sure growing in our hard packed clay soil that roots on the wild plants are probably not the highest quality but a nice healthy and diverse population growing wild would be pretty good insurance of a continuous supply of seeds for the garden.

Some questions,

When do you harvest the flowers? I'm guessing just before they open, and how do you cook them?

The plant is biannual not perennial? So it dies after flowering?

Can you dig up and replant to select for larger roots?

And another little tidbit from the web concerning (T. dubius and T. porrifolius), and (T. dubius and T. pratensis),
Quote
We observe that the dynamic nature of polyploid genomes-with alterations in gene content, gene number, gene arrangement, gene expression and transposon activity-may generate sufficient novelty that every individual in a polyploid population or species may be unique. Whereas certain combinations of these features will undoubtedly be maladaptive, some unique combinations of newly generated variation may provide tremendous evolutionary potential and adaptive capabilities
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Polyploidy-and-novelty%3A-Gottlieb's-legacy.-Soltis-Liu/04a58ab6b49f64ab06ede38eee46e1ea53cde7c3

William S.

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #31 on: 2019-03-02, 09:07:39 AM »
I eat the flower buds of Tragopogon dubius whenever I find them, It is opportunistic so I am not trying to optimize size or flavor. They seem pretty mild so far as long as they are in bud. I eat them raw, haven't gotten enough together to cook yet.

T. Dubius is biennial and dies after flowering. Really I think it is more of a fall or early spring germinating annual.


My first field season back in 2002 I did something called Daubenmire plots. We would analyze what was growing in a series of tiny squares. Tragopogon dubius has been present at approximately the same abundance my whole life in Montana. In the small squares there was almost always a tiny Tragopogon dubius seedling. I can only conclude from this that almost every seed lands and germinates and later most of the seedlings die. You can always tell the tiny seedlings from a grass seedling by ripping a tiny bit of a leaf off, it will bleed white latex.

I don't know anything about transplanting them specifically. However it's a rare plant of grassland habitats that won't transplant. Around here I know of only three. Perennial lupines, stoneseed (Lithospermum ruderale), and arrow leaf balsamroot. I had great success with doing my transplanting very early in the spring and using a mister nozzle on them frequently.


Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

B. Copping

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #32 on: 2019-03-02, 12:22:30 PM »
Thanks for the info on the flower buds.
I’ve read several recipes for salsify that say to scrub, but not peel the roots.

Wild Salsify:
Less scientific, but interesting (if you can read French).
If nothing else, there is a list of common names in various languages.
https://www.complements-alimentaires.co/salsifis-pres/

I’ve added the Western Salsify (T. dubious) to my list of “Salsifies”.
There have been many times when I have cursed the abundance of common names, often applied to multiple species.


Black Salsify Scorzonera hispanica Yellow flowers; Black skinnned roots. Biennial, perennial in mild climates (?).
(Scorzonera; Spanish Salsify; Viper's Grass; Black Oyster Plant)

Purple Salsify Tragopogon porrifolius Purple flowers; White roots. Biennial.
(Oyster Plant; Havrerod; Haverwortel; Hawwerwurtzel; Vegtable Oyster; John-Go-To-Bed-At-Noon)

Wild Salsify Tragopogon pratensis Yellow flowers; White roots. Biennial.
(Meadow Salsify; Jack-Go-To-Bed-At-Noon; Goat's Beard; Barbe de bouc; Barbouzet; Salsifis: des prés, sauvage, bâtard, d'Orient)

Western Salsify Tragopogon dubius Yellow flowers. Biennial.

Yellow Salsify Reichardia picriodes Yellow flowers. (Might be perennial in some climates)
(R. macrophylla; Picridium vulgare; French Scorzonera; Brighteyes; Common brighteyes)

(Gaaah!)
« Last Edit: 2019-03-02, 06:20:20 PM by B. Copping »

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #33 on: 2019-03-02, 01:22:13 PM »


The plant is biannual not perennial? So it dies after flowering?
I'm sure they are biannual, though this summer I only took as much seed as I needed and pulled them out otherwise there would be seedlings popping up everywhere


Can you dig up and replant to select for larger roots?
Cant see why not, I'll report back on how this goes about October

« Last Edit: 2019-03-02, 01:23:44 PM by Richard Watson »

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #34 on: 2019-03-02, 02:02:14 PM »
Right then, its the Tragopogon porrifolius I have

B. Copping

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #35 on: 2019-03-02, 06:13:00 PM »
Black Salsify, and Yellow Salsify both are listed as having perennial tendancies in mild climates.
I don’t yet know if the Black Salsify will be perennial in my climate.
It’s awfully cold hardy though...I was waiting for the foliage to die back before harvest, but the snow arrived first.

gmuller

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reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #37 on: 2019-03-11, 01:51:29 AM »
I went out yesterday and got a nice spot ready to plant mine, could do so anytime. Our weather is supposed to be going into the 60s or even 70s F in next few days but could easily go back to the teens or colder again. I wonder is it safe to plant or should I wait a little bit?

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #38 on: 2019-03-11, 12:15:29 PM »
I know my seedling at the same point of the growing would be fine, but then they dont get put through the same level of spring cold periods you can get.

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #39 on: 2019-03-12, 06:04:11 AM »
I may hold off a little on planting or maybe plant a few and the rest later. I don't care if roots don't get real big this year cause I mostly just want to increase seed. I'll dig a couple to taste but mostly leave them to bloom next year. Once I have lots of seed I can treat them like I do a lot of other things, plant as early as I want and replant later if necessary.

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #40 on: 2019-03-13, 06:44:50 AM »
We have thunderstorms in the forecast next couple days and long range doesn't suggest anything much below freezing for 10 days so I'm gonna go ahead and plant mine real soon. I was thinking of putting a couple seeds on the heat mat today so I can see what the seedlings look like.

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #41 on: 2019-03-13, 12:07:34 PM »
They are a big seedling when they come through, very distinctive and easy to pick as to what they are.

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #42 on: 2019-03-22, 03:23:25 PM »
I'm tired of waiting so I'm gonna go out tomorrow and plant stuff! Salsify, radish, mustard, lettuce, what ever else I find when I dig in to the seed chest this evening.

Really looking forward to seeing what the salsify is and how it tastes, will also be on the lookout for the wind kind growing around. I'm afraid I won't recognize it till it's blooming but I remember pretty close to where some is, maybe I'll get lucky and find it early on and transplant some. I bet form description of how it grows it might not be an easy transplant, specially in spring or summer but as long as I find plenty I'll give it a go.

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #43 on: 2019-05-09, 03:57:31 AM »
The wild salsify around the neighborhood are blooming right now. I guess if it is biannual not much us in digging any up to transplant but there is pretty good population of it so should be able to collect a lot of seeds pretty soon.
My patch from Richard's seeds is getting established. It was slow at first and some died after sprouting. I think there was too much un-composted material in the bed I made for it and it dried out to easily. Sill I got several nice strong plants going.

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #44 on: 2019-05-09, 01:24:10 PM »
Pleased my seed is doing it for you Mark.

We have been eating our winter block, done really well but haven't yet come across any yet that are less 'hairy' that I want to save for seed, only need two of three. Got two bolters at the moment, a sign of how unseasonably warm its been this autumn.