Author Topic: Salsify  (Read 2313 times)

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #15 on: 2019-02-28, 09:29:16 PM »
Yellow Salsify (Reichardia picriodes)
A friend is growing this, but I haven’t heard the results yet.
I’m interested to know if it will survive the winter here.

Had to look this one up- Ive get the odd one of these that pop up on there own in the garden, dont know where they come from as I never let them flower.

It looks like myself and reed have Tragopogon porrifolius, wild salsify yet the taste is superb
« Last Edit: 2019-02-28, 09:36:03 PM by Richard Watson »
Changeable year round climate with warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

Doro

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #16 on: 2019-03-01, 12:40:00 AM »
Great looking plants Richard!

I managed to get 2 black salsify varieties and 3 x purple salsify from different sources.
The seed packs say that it is possible to autumn sow them or to spring sow as soon as the frost is out of the soil and it can be worked. They claim germination is better when the seeds went through cold vernalization.
The best before dates on the packs are rather short, just a year between seed harvest and last sale date/sow date. The seeds seem to get old quickly.
I'm still stuck in snow and ice, probably another 4 weeks until my soil can be worked. But it should be safe to sow now if you can.

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #17 on: 2019-03-01, 01:43:18 AM »
The seed doesn't need verbalization as my plants that I took seed from in Dec had seedlings growing around during Feb, remembering its now early autumn here.
Changeable year round climate with warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

Doro

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #18 on: 2019-03-01, 02:26:48 AM »
That struck me to be odd too, considering they grow wild in the Mediterranean areas which are not exactly famous for being frosty.
It's probably similar to carrots, they don't mind a cold start but that does not mean that they won't germinate during warmer times.

orflo

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #19 on: 2019-03-01, 02:44:44 AM »
They are wild ove here as well (Belgium), from time to time I find them along road sides or more likely along railroad sides.  A part of the ones that are growing in my garden germinate in spring and withstand the winter without any problem, another part germinates in spring, which is better.  The autumn sown ones tend to form flowers /seeds in early summer, the spring sown ones grow out nicely in their first year and produce 'big' roots (although I've never seen them really big like carrots).  They do have a tendency to fork here as well, but it's no problem, just take the garden hose and clean them, they don't need to be peeled.  Removing the finest roots is however advisable, not everybody likes those thin 'hairs'.  In my garden they resow themselves abundantly, I collect seeds as well.
Having early flowers is quite nice, they're pretty and you can eat the unopened flower buds (very tasty!), the leaves can also be eaten but to me they're nothing special.

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #20 on: 2019-03-01, 03:01:19 AM »
I'm more than a little confused by by all the different scientific names I find when I do a search for this. Even the pictures are confusing. The pictures I find show that there is variation in what the flowers look like. What grows wild here has yellow flowers but from the pictures there is even more than one kind with yellow flowers.

O'well, I don't care I'll just plant it and see what it does, also will go dig up some wild ones. Too bad I'm not familiar enough to  locate it until those distinctive flower buds show up. Suzann Ashworth's book says it will cross but I'm not sure if that means different purples or different yellows cross with each other or it it means purple and yellow will cross.

I hope as well as cultivate in the garden, to add it to the neighborhood wild population.
« Last Edit: 2019-03-01, 03:04:48 AM by reed »

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #21 on: 2019-03-01, 07:02:12 AM »
In the wildlands around here, salsify with yellow flowers, and salsify with purple flowers grow in the same patches. For whatever that's worth....

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #22 on: 2019-03-01, 07:31:36 AM »
Did a little more searching and this https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/flower/yellow-goats-beard is what looks most like what I see growing wild around here, in fact it looks exactly like it.

I'm excited about this plant because of it's ability to grow wild making it possible I think to establish nice productive patches with less effort than needed for most other food crops. Joseph, do you harvest and eat your local varieties?
« Last Edit: 2019-03-01, 07:35:06 AM by reed »

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #23 on: 2019-03-01, 11:37:26 AM »
Never seen Tragopogon dubius wild or sold by seed companies here in NZ, looks so like the T porrifolius in leaf and flower bud shape but only a different colour. Look forward to hearing back from you reed what differences there are between the two in terms of taste.

reed - I dont think wild patches will be that overly productive as they will more likely be autumn germinated and therefore wont have a descent size roots compared to late winter/spring sown, like with any biannual the longer the growing season in its first year the larger the roots .
Changeable year round climate with warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

William S.

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #24 on: 2019-03-01, 11:39:40 AM »
Reed the kind in your link, sometimes called Western Salsify (as a standardized weed science English name) Tragopogon dubius is the common wild one here. I like the flower buds.

I've been noticing the purple ones in Polson MT in recent years.

I have purchased a packet of Fiore Blu. Have a packet of mammoth sandwich island on my wishlist.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

reed

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #25 on: 2019-03-01, 03:52:55 PM »
Wow, look what I found now, https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Figure2-Typical-inflorescences-of-T-pratensis-T-porrifolius-and-hybrids-found-in-this_fig1_281464811. These are worth it just for the flowers! But the article goes on to say that in 250 years of hybridization T pratensis and T porrifolius hae not made a new species.

But the article also says
Quote
both parental species have formed new allopolyploid species through hybridization with another diploid, T. dubius.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281464811_250_years_of_hybridisation_between_two_biennial_herb_species_without_speciation

So I can go dig up or collect seeds of wild T dubious and I'v got  T porrifolius from Richard so all I need now is to get some T pratensis and throw em all together and let em do their thing.

Here is another picture of various hybrids,
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Polyploidy-and-novelty%3A-Gottlieb's-legacy.-Soltis-Liu/04a58ab6b49f64ab06ede38eee46e1ea53cde7c3/figure/1
Goes a long way to explain why there is so much conflicting and erroneous info in the old blogasphere regarding these plants.   




« Last Edit: 2019-03-01, 04:03:49 PM by reed »

B. Copping

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #26 on: 2019-03-01, 07:30:52 PM »
Wild Salsify:

https://www.lasocietedesplantes.com/produits/salsifis-des-pres/

No idea if they will ship to the USA. (If you e-mail in English you will likely get a response in English)
I took my Wild Salsify seeds to the Seedy Weekend, so I only have plants in the ground now.

William S.

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #27 on: 2019-03-01, 07:59:36 PM »
If desired a enterprising botanist could track down herbarium records and find much of the Tragopogon diversity by returning to collection sites. Though one caveat is there is some potential for introducing a serious weed here. Tragopogon dubius is fairly aggressive.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

Richard Watson

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #28 on: 2019-03-01, 09:11:34 PM »
Turning into a rather interesting thread this one.

I'm not sure which one I have now, T porrifolius or pratensis, what's the diference?? when I do a web search the same photos come up for both.
Changeable year round climate with warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

William S.

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Re: Salsify
« Reply #29 on: 2019-03-02, 01:03:04 AM »
http://beta.floranorthamerica.org/wiki/Tragopogon

Looks like in FNEP porrifolius is purple and pratensis yellow.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A