Author Topic: Climate Change Breeding  (Read 3830 times)

Andrew Barney

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #45 on: 2019-12-26, 11:15:28 AM »
Growing corn to feed cows, pigs, chickens, and gas tanks might not be the best use of soils.

This is also a big thing to think about. A great portion of corn is grown for animal feed and/or ethanol which is not the best idea in my opinion. I guess mash left over from ethanol production can still be used for animal feed, so that might help,  but not much.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #46 on: 2019-12-26, 11:28:03 AM »

1) The amount of additional food that would need to be grown in order to make up the difference. Meat is much higher in nutrients, fat and calories than most vegetable forms of food. Even if we were able to put that 75% into other food production our calorie production would fall drastically. Much more land would have to be devoted to oil production alone, because humans need oils and fats to live. At an average 10/1 ratio (assuming ten pounds of seed to 1 pound of oil--it ranges between 5 and 50 to 1) this greatly increases the necessary space.


I wonder how much of this can be solved with just smarter use of what land we do have and what crops we grow and/or breed. Maybe we should be breeding for higher oil content crops both for human consumption and biofuel use.

Here in my area I think I would plant sunflowers and walnuts as high oil crops. Maybe I need to start breeding my seed squashes again. I think something akin to what the permaculture movement is doing may be the best way.  Does not mean everything has to be permaculture or permaculture extreme, but I think maintaining and using the nutrients available and not moving them away is key.

If leaves fall we should not rake them up and haul them away to the dump.

Trees have deeper root systems and bring up nutrients for other plants when leaves fall. Fruit and nuts are good food but long term.

Bushes are intermediate and can be fruit as well. Many of these can be shade tolerant and thrive in tree understories.

Vegetable crops might be able to be planted on the periphery or edge and/or use the good soil from under the trees (a renewing resource). Legumes and other crops can be grown for green manure (beans, peas, alfalfa (perennial deep roots), clovers, lupines).

I would think something Like this could maximize space.

Heck,  even rabbits, or turkeys,  or chickens could probably put into this system with minimal space and load. And their manure used as well.
« Last Edit: 2019-12-26, 11:31:24 AM by Andrew Barney »

reed

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #47 on: 2019-12-26, 04:20:44 PM »
Just my opinion of course but I think there are basically three things an individual gardener can do that has some hope of adapting to climate change in the short term, none of them are new to us here on the forums.

1. Landrace style breeding although I just consider it more as collecting diversity within a species and selecting what produces best. I don't trial or compare varieties anymore, I just plant new ones as I acquire them and save seeds if they do well, I don't pay much attention to names except to not acquire that one again. Everyone can do this type of collecting, mixing or landrace breeding, if that's what you want to call it.

2. Collect and grow as above a large variety of different species. This one isn't possible for me because I don't have enough space and energy to grow a very large diversity of species in a meaningful quantity. I try to compensate here to some degree by trying a new one or two each year. Again, not a new variety but a new to me, crop. This year it's cow peas and peanuts.

3. Select for short season maturity within each crop. This is to help compensate for freakish weather by allowing possibility of replanting a failed crop if time and weather permits or growing multiple successive crops in a particular season again, if weather permits.

As far as what "we" do as a species to adapt or adjust or how "we" will fix what I believe, isn't fixable, I just don't consider myself part of that. I think what "they" will do is continue the chemically treated, petroleum fueled, economically profitable,  just in time delivery, of sugar frosted coco puffs to the tables of "them" until the rapidly approaching day they can't.   
« Last Edit: 2019-12-26, 04:26:59 PM by reed »

Lauren

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #48 on: 2019-12-26, 04:30:49 PM »
As far as what "we" do as a species to adapt or adjust or how "we" will fix what I believe, isn't fixable, I just don't consider myself part of that. I think what "they" will do is continue the chemically treated, petroleum fueled, economically profitable,  just in time delivery, of sugar frosted coco puffs to the tables of "them" until the rapidly approaching day they can't.
Really all we can do is affect our own space. Circle of control, circle of concern. If we do our best nature will handle the rest one way or another--possibly by, as you suggest, running out of petroleum. Landraces, learning to feed ourselves and our families, small scale agriculture wherever we happen to land, these things will help cushion the inevitable end. Teach the kids and leave records, because those coming after will need them.

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #49 on: 2019-12-26, 04:55:49 PM »
I think as the father of a three year old, I have a responsibility with this plant breeding. Hopefully one of these years I will have something new that can be released. I think we can make a real difference with hobby breeding. Particularly with north south bidirectional movement of varietal diversity. I think Northern adapted varieties have resilience because they produce a crop quickly and southern adapted greater diversity. When we continuously mix the two I think good things happen.
« Last Edit: 2019-12-26, 06:39:26 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

PaulJ

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #50 on: 2019-12-29, 08:53:33 AM »
As a contrarian, I have been collecting seed from extreme cold tolerant plants in expectation of a mini ice age

Im a believer in Valentina Zharkova's solar cycle work
The effects of galactic cosmic rays, creating more volcanoes and earthquakes already seem to be starting and its probably going to increase for a few decades.


There is nothing new under the sun.

spacecase0

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #51 on: 2019-12-29, 05:23:06 PM »
As a contrarian, I have been collecting seed from extreme cold tolerant plants in expectation of a mini ice age

Im a believer in Valentina Zharkova's solar cycle work
The effects of galactic cosmic rays, creating more volcanoes and earthquakes already seem to be starting and its probably going to increase for a few decades.

There is nothing new under the sun.
during an ice age I get more mild weather, but the big hallmark of ice age weather is randomness in the weather.
so I have been collecting seeds for every climate.
never know what will happen
history shows that the earth is really not stable at all.
what I really need are plants that can take UV light, cosmic rays, and unstable daily weather.

Lauren

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #52 on: 2019-12-29, 06:07:12 PM »
what I really need are plants that can take UV light, cosmic rays, and unstable daily weather.
I ran into something interesting last spring--UV levels were at extreme levels, and we were told to stay inside or wear protection outside. I noticed the watermelons, sweet potatoes and squash actually crawling INTO the shade! They started sprawling normally later in the season, but I'd never seen that before. It seems to me that the plants know what to do to protect themselves.

Steve1

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #53 on: 2019-12-29, 08:39:26 PM »
I ran into something interesting last spring--UV levels were at extreme levels, and we were told to stay inside or wear protection outside. I noticed the watermelons, sweet potatoes and squash actually crawling INTO the shade! They started sprawling normally later in the season, but I'd never seen that before. It seems to me that the plants know what to do to protect themselves.

Check out some of the Australian adapted varieties then. 20 mins in the sun here can get you burnt. One of the highest incidences of skin cancer in the world and 2 to 3 times the rate in Canada, USA and the UK. Sunscreen here is not optional.

Richard Watson

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #54 on: 2019-12-30, 10:19:04 AM »
If you dont have dark enough coloured skin melanin levels you will get burnt.  There are links between the use of sunscreen and skin cancer which is why I never use it, but never letting myself get burnt in spring is the key, now its summer i spend all day outside with no shirt on and I'm as brown I will get. The UV levels are similar over here to what you fella's get, so i think its those intense heat periods you get that forces watermelons, sweet potatoes and squash to crawl into the shade and not UV, doesn't happen here.
Changeable year round climate, less so summertime, warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

Lauren

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #55 on: 2019-12-30, 10:39:51 AM »
This was actually late spring, before the real heat hit. UV was close to 10 through most of the spring and into early summer. 100+ degree days, they revel in it and want more. UV is the only thing I can think of that could account for it.

Steve1

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #56 on: 2019-12-30, 01:23:15 PM »
If you dont have dark enough coloured skin melanin levels you will get burnt.  There are links between the use of sunscreen and skin cancer which is why I never use it, but never letting myself get burnt in spring is the key, now its summer i spend all day outside with no shirt on and I'm as brown I will get. The UV levels are similar over here to what you fella's get, so i think its those intense heat periods you get that forces watermelons, sweet potatoes and squash to crawl into the shade and not UV, doesn't happen here.

Yep, I reckon your UV would be similar. Just had a quick look at the literature on this, a meta analysis (315,000 participants) found no increased risk of skin cancer with sunscreen use, it found no protective benefits either. The early data up to 80's showed a strongly protective association which decreased to the point where it was no longer significant in the mid 90's. Maybe changes in formula? Interesting though.

Steph S

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #57 on: 2019-12-30, 06:16:30 PM »
I'm old enough to remember what it was like before high UV.  When we were kids the sun felt good on your skin.  Fast forward to the 90's, I remember working outdoors one spring soon after I moved here, sunny but cold and UV 8, it didn't stop the blackflies either. I remember thinking we could now be frozen, scorched and eaten alive at the same time. :P
All kidding aside, UV can be detrimental to crops as well.

spacecase0

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #58 on: 2019-12-30, 08:42:23 PM »
the current UV scale was designed to have a max of 10. that was because "they" thought 10 was the highest possible value
I have a long lost  picture with 23 on the scale... (high elevation in south america ~10 years ago)
UVa, UVb, and UVc ratios have also been changing

my corn seemed unphased by anything
then again it is the first generation corn into north america (white mohave flower)
low yield, scales well to conditions, but never fails.



reed

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #59 on: 2019-12-31, 02:58:17 AM »
I don't know anything about sun screen, never tried the stuff but I do wear long sleeves and a hat during hot parts of the day. I go the Goodwill store each spring and find 4 or 5 nice heavy all white, all cotton shirts that are at least two sizes too big. They have to be heavy cotton with the double layer across the shoulders, thin material just lets in the heat and traps it but the thick baggy ones keep me comfortable. Also seems to me that the sun is more uncomfortable than it used to be.

I don't know if it is UV or just the heat but when it's over 90 F with intense sun lots of things are effected I think. Sweet potatoes wilt in the afternoons even if they don't need watered. Corn planted Early July tassels same time as the earlier planted patch.

When really weird stuff like going six weeks of 90 F + sun to a month of 60 F + rain and then back to the hot again things sometimes just fail completely. Last year April and May were hot and I had a beautiful patch of squash growing. Then it turned cool and wet with 21 inches of rain and little sun at all from June 1 to June 21. I didn't get a single squash last year. Tomatoes recovered in the hot dry after that and produced wonderfully without another drop of water until August.