Author Topic: Climate Change Breeding  (Read 5996 times)

Richard Watson

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #60 on: 2019-12-31, 11:04:03 AM »
I don't know anything about sun screen, never tried the stuff but I do wear long sleeves and a hat during hot parts of the day. I go the Goodwill store each spring and find 4 or 5 nice heavy all white, all cotton shirts that are at least two sizes too big. They have to be heavy cotton with the double layer across the shoulders, thin material just lets in the heat and traps it but the thick baggy ones keep me comfortable. Also seems to me that the sun is more uncomfortable than it used to be.

I'm more comfortable just in a light coloured singlets, bit I am fortunate to have some Spanish ancestry which allows me to tan without burning.



On Face Book there was an excellent post by Liz Gladin on the Soil4climate page, thought I would share it here 
Quote
CO2 is a major global climate influencer and the issue is how those increases impact global processes - surface temperature, sea temperature, acidification processes etc, with multiple and synergistic feedbacks. Yes plants need CO2 but the rises in temperature brought about by rising CO2 (and other GHGs) affect processes other than ‘providing more of the CO2 needed to grow’. Temperature is a major impact on plant biochemistry and the speed of change in global temperatures (alongside wider changes in hydrology, soil systems, disease patterns etc etc) prohibit adaptive processes. It’s not simply about the CO2 - this is simply a marker about the impacts of which are too often not explained which opens up the ‘plants need CO2 so it is a good thing’ arguments. It is about the impacts of the rapid increase in CO2 on complex global systems - in the case of plants, on the impact of elevated CO2 and warming on growth responses - predicted shifts in rates of/relationships in photosynthesis, photorespiration, respiration, reproduction, of generally drier environments, and thermally-induced physical and biochemical changes to plant-based ocean systems. And where feedbacks are not fully understood in a world that has 7 billion people which need feeding by those plant systems and which as people here point out are already showing signs of increasing stress, failure even from historical and contemporary human processes. Clocking up the rapid increase in CO2, which we all understand is necessary for life on earth, is simply a marker for the broader complex changes we are facing. Or rather, that we are not facing up to.
« Last Edit: 2019-12-31, 11:05:34 AM by Richard Watson »
Changeable year round climate, less so summertime, warming winters - just under 500mm average yearly rainfall. 20 years of soil improvements plus sub soil top soil reversal means my garden beds are about half metre deep. Below that is 100's of metres of alluvial out wash from the Southern
alps.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #61 on: 2019-12-31, 10:49:19 PM »
Here in Colorado and at high altitude we probably get higher UV because of the thinner atmosphere. I really think higher UV is one reason sometimes random seeds from the generic big box stores croak immediately when introduced to my area. Among other reasons in combination.

One reason I particularly like crops with high anthocyanins. Basically plant UV filter to some degree. The silver leaves squashes also highly interest me in this regard as well possibly.

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #62 on: 2020-01-01, 10:00:23 AM »
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2020/12/30/animal-agriculture-costs-more-in-health-damage-than-it-contributes-to-the-economy/amp/

This article reminds me of Gene Logsdon and his philosophy. Gene railed against factory farming of livestock. Insisted that it would be better to have real traditional small holdings. Where a farmer grows crops and livestock together on the same small acreage.

I think this article is kind of mainly suggesting holding the facilities to higher pollution standards.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #63 on: 2020-01-25, 08:36:36 AM »
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/01/14/1913885117

Interesting journal articles I followed from science daily. It sounds like climate change may break defense systems against insects in Tomato.

Though I wonder if we can counter that.

Here is science daily article

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200121133319.htm
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Steph S

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #64 on: 2020-01-25, 09:25:50 AM »
There is definitely resistance to insect herbivores to be tapped in the tomato genome.   Maybe depending on the pest _ haven't tested anything with caterpillars as we don't have the tomato eating ones here.  But general resistance is definitely possible vs susceptibility is also possible, I've seen that in two lines that really diverged for degree of insect appeal.   Probably secondary substances in the leaves - you know an extract of tomato leaves has been recommended by some for aphid control.  Lots of nasty stuff in the leaves, afaik.  Caterpillars, maybe not so much!

'My greenhouse environment is pretty extreme.  Glass glazing (vs plastic which diffuses the light) means UV stress and heat stress as well when the ventilation is insufficient.   I have seen some resilience to the high UV/higher temps in a few plants.  But the general rule applies, that pollen becomes sterile at temps over 95 F.  If there is variance in actual temperature tolerance I haven't measured that, just observed that some plants will set fruit even when up against the glazing - conditions that normally mean all blossoms will drop.  Also the 95F cited by others is a good match for my observation of temp in the shade above 92 F start expecting some blossom drop.   It is hotter at the plant surface in sun, obviously, and I assume microenvironmental effects (shading by leaves etc) are the main reason that some blossoms do survive and set.  Although cherries, for some reason, are known to be more heat tolerant than other tomatoes - as commented by many seasoned southern growers.
I notice this guy has his heat chamber on 38 C.  That is 100.4 F and into the temperature zone of pollen kill.  So I suspect a control group with no caterpillars would also have a reduced yield.

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #65 on: 2020-01-26, 12:41:17 AM »
I fail to understand the use of such limited tomato genetics in the research. No attempt apparant to search for varieties that can overcome this limitation found in the research. Wild type was of the research variety CastleMart. Could easily find and test a heat tolerant variety. Or another tomato species or two from an appropriate latitude and elevation to have potential heat tolerance and arthropod resistance. Maybe that gives them something to do next?
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Steph S

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #66 on: 2020-01-26, 05:59:45 AM »
Well... that's the nature of science/experimental method.   One little bite at a time, and you can't draw broad conclusions from any one piece of the research.  Everything is just... a beginning.  ::)   But better than nothing.  ;D

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #67 on: 2020-01-26, 09:47:31 AM »
Yeah, definitely a physiology study rather than a plant breeding one. Too many obvious avenues for potential existing resistance at hotter temperatures in tomato. Would not be at all surprised if existing heat tolerant varieties performed much better.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #68 on: 2020-01-26, 12:57:03 PM »
I really like silver-leaved plants in my garden. Seems to be a general phenotype for high-altitude desert adapted species.

I'm looking forward to what role hairy leaves/fruit might play in the promiscuous tomato project. Seems like it might be one avenue towards resistance to insects. 

Steph S

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #69 on: 2020-01-26, 01:33:27 PM »
I really like silver-leaved plants in my garden. Seems to be a general phenotype for high-altitude desert adapted species.

I'm looking forward to what role hairy leaves/fruit might play in the promiscuous tomato project. Seems like it might be one avenue towards resistance to insects.
I was wondering about hairy leaf too, with my michihili cabbage crosses.  Lots of hairiness in tomatoes, I really noticed that in the Beta lines. I should take a closer look at hairiness in the two lines that are most and least appealing to aphids and others.
Silver leaf has an obvious effect on microclimate - interesting that it is a high desert adaptation.  Reflecting some of the incoming solar is a way to keep your leaf activity cool!
I've been looking at plant architecture as a way to select for resistant traits, since tomatoes use their leaves to shield blossoms from both heat and cold.   The funny thing is, neighboring plants will also reach out and position their leaves to protect blossoms on other plants.  So how we design our planting system may be as important, too.   From genetic standpoint, things like internode length can have a big impact on the plant's ability to shelter its blossoms through the maturing and pollinating days.  Plants that sucker fast and hard produce lots of shading options for the plant as well.   Those 'fruit support' suckers that come from below the truss can play a big role in shading, but only if the timing is right.  A later sucker isn't there when shade is needed. 






Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #70 on: 2020-01-27, 12:29:36 AM »
In the promiscuous tomatoes, flowers might be located 6" above the foliage. All the better to attract pollinators.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #71 on: 2020-01-27, 07:51:45 AM »
I really wish I had silver leaved squash again. Joseph,  did you ever stabilize a population of silver leafed squash? If you did I would love some seed in the future.

Solanum peruvianum seems to like my climate and it has silvery leaves. Hopefully in the future hybrids could be selected. Since it is so hard to cross,  this may be a situation to use some introgression lines if they exist.

The trichomes (hairs) with different insect resistance in tomatoes is in several different tomato studies already,  so you are on the right track. Some of them also have different volatiles and chemicals which may also help. Leaves that don't smell like typical domestic tomato leaves might also be a way to push tomatoes into more resistant lines. Or at least change the scent some of these pests are zooming in on. Some of these pests are highly evolved for specific markers. If we change those markers it will help.

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #72 on: 2020-01-27, 03:05:47 PM »
I really wish I had silver leaved squash again. Joseph,  did you ever stabilize a population of silver leafed squash?

Interesting that you should ask. I sent my moschata squash to Carol Deppe. She grew it out (once or twice) and sent seed back to me. What she returned was almost exclusively green-leaved. So while I didn't stabilize for silver-leaved, my ecosystem tends to favor the silver-leaved trait.

Also, what she returned tended towards blossom end rot, which is super unusual in my garden. I'm thinking that has something to do with differences between my silty-limestone based soil and her volcanic derived soil

Lauren

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #73 on: 2020-01-28, 12:29:29 PM »
I was wondering about hairy leaf too
I have fruit flies in my plant room. I'm using beans as a test for another project, and I notice that fruit flies get stuck and die in the hairs on the leaves.

William S.

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Re: Climate Change Breeding
« Reply #74 on: 2020-01-28, 01:18:11 PM »
That can be a pathway to carnivorey in plants. A old edition of the Montana Native Plant Society newsletter had an long article about the phenomenon. Its not infrequent that plants with sticky hairs kill small insects and then N from them makes its way into the plants. The sticky substances do some digesting.

When I worked for the NPS years ago school children usually third graders would come and we had a plant adaptation station where they could look at the hairs of silvery leaved hairy plants and such. Hairiness is important for high elevation plants and desert plants. Helps slow air movement. Reduces transpiration. Blocks some UV. In some habitats it's probably a waste of resources.

I wonder if in some cases we block natural adaptations with the care we take to water and reduce competition. I suspect that dry farming would favor plants with hairy leaves in some areas where we normally irrigate. Not watering my tomatoes last year was interesting. Kind of want to know how dry of a year they can handle now. Some of the wilds and half wilds should be much more capable than the domestics, but my domestics did great last year.
« Last Edit: 2020-01-28, 02:46:46 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days