Shenanigans at Homestead Nowhere

[Kadence Luneman]

Hi! I read alot on here and finally am posting and not just lurking. I have gardened just a little in the past but helped alot in other people's gardens. I'm also a research addict so I'm a very highly informed newb! Ha!

I am a farmer and fiber artist primarily. I have sheep and work with wool and natural fibers. I also have chickens for eggs and meat. A border collie, Scotty, whom he and I need training for sheep herding. And just this month Dad got three dairy goats so of course I went along and had to buy one too. I live with Dad on the family farm, 250 acres total, less than 2 acres is dad's. Last year I raised a hog and would like to do hogs again if I can make it work.

I'm in Ohio, USA. Right about the area where Ohio, PA, and WV meet. Zone 6a. Average precipitation 40 inches per year says the internet. In reality sometimes the rain turns off in mid June and we might not get rain (more than wetting the grass, real soak in rain) until the end of August. I think it was five years ago it was like that, rain always went around us somehow and I was actually worried there could be a grass fire. Fifteen miles away the river was over the banks and lots of people were losing horses to an illness spread by water bugs that were washed all over the pastures.. and repeatedly..
So ya, lots of valleys and hills and microclimate going on here.. Ok I think that's all the main background points.

This year...

I decided to put in a big garden! And then there were rocks! And more rocks.. And a huge stone.. And another.. So dad hit the area with a double bottom plow and the next following week I was hauling rocks.. and metal.. and glass..
The area I chose for the garden is a flat-ish area. A plus because flat land (let alone level) is very limited here. Any flat area is either down in a valley, the hill/ridge top, or you flatten it yourself. Fun times... All the stuff needing pulled that wasn't rocks is from the old barn. I didn't realize the full back story and turns out it was even more badly done than previously known. Basically half the barn was just pushed around this half acre area. Dad had to keep stopping the tractor so I could pull out metal and not complain wreck the tractor tires! A badly bent but whole cow stanchion!

All this rambling to say the garden reality this year is 20-some tomato plants, interplanted with marigolds. I started squash but I think they were put out too late, the heat had already set in by early June. The first few I transplanted just wilted and dehydrated into nothing by the second day after. I transplanted the rest spread out across half the garden area and broadcast cover crop mix. The idea being for the cover crop to hopefully minimize the weeds coming up and shade the ground, then the squash will grow and sprawl out.
We have had decent rain this year and not really long times between a decent rain. But it's also been gawd-awful-hot! Lots of days above 90*F. And we're humid so most of it was "feels like" temperature ten degrees above what the thermometer said. Miserable! The squash have just been struggling along. They are little stunted things. Weirdly they are making flowers, some alot of flowers, but all of them are male. No female flowers.

I'm glad the tomatoes are chugging along at least. The sheep have access to the squash half of the garden right now to eat whatever of the weeds and what was left of the dried up cover crop. They didn't eay the squash plants but they got beat up, stepped on, etc. They aren't going to produce anything. The other half of the garden has the chickens on it, which tomorrow I hope to move to the squash half. There is a huge stone on that side. The top flat side is just about twin mattress size and goes down at least 6 inches on the exposed edge I dug away at. I've been calling it pride rock.. like lion king..
I'm trying to get a friend of dad's over with a bucket loader to clean out the sheep winter pen. I'd like to have him try to get the stone out and then pile the sheep bedding in the garden area. Everything is running late.

[Kadence Luneman]

Currently...
The majority of the garden is just plowed, leveled, and weeds grow back. I'm going to broadfork the squash half of the garden and have the chickens there for a while. My goal is to get the garden tilled and set up in beds. I'd like to try some fall/winter crops. And I'd like to seed the rest with grain rye by mid September. As cover crop but also I want to leave some of it to harvest grain from.

I've been following alot of people and I really like the market garden kind of deal. 30in beds, 12in paths. Mulched paths. Seems like the best fit. And optimize getting it all set up and not having to do lots of prep work all the time. I may make one raised bed because the clay soil and I want to do root crops too. We'll see how it goes...
Did I mention that the garden is about 30x150ft? 

So the garden really only consists of some tomatoes this year. I wasn't even going to do tomatoes but dad bought seeds and I started them. At least I got them going.
Roma and San Marzano. I don't really do tomatoes but I do like tomato sauce and salsa. I've had two so far start to blush red and they had blossom end rot. I'm trying to check and pull the rot ones and I even brush off the dried blossoms as I check them.
They are loaded with green tomatoes, just waiting to ripen! At the time I transplanted them in the garden I had young chickens escaping and running around. Even though they could literally have gone anywhere they partied in the cleared garden. And early in the morning escaped to wreak havoc on the tomatoes and the mulch... so my two rows of tomatoes were condensed into one as I salvaged survivors.. and I have no idea what was what..
Having an indeterminate and a determinant variety I now can tell. The wee roma from the sprawling San Marzano.
I want to take out some bread ties to mark a couple flowers to try my hand at manual pollinating. I have more Roma seed and the San Marzano are doing better. I figured crossing flowers from the couple best SM plants would be good to save seed from. One step in tomatoes to be more adapted. (Although I don't think I could adapt them to young chicken havoc.. ha!)

[Steph S]

Welcome to the forum!  I love the description of your new garden. 
Don't worry about the all male squash blossoms, btw.  They always do that (here, anyway) for a while before they make females too.
Squash blossoms are delicious battered and fried, as I learned in one especially frustrating year of so many males...
Looking forward to hear more about your farm.

[Diane Whitehead]

Yes, welcome!  What an effort you are putting in.  You mentioned "family farm".  Does that mean you have 248 acres, and your dad 2?

[Adrian]

Welcome,
It existed differents san marzano the most frequent for us is san marzano lungo.
Its a reliable choice.This tomato is polyvalent good for tomato sauce and correct in salad and very productive.


Apical necrosis is very frequent in long tomato.The reason is a bad assimilation of the calcium.
A regular watered help at this good assimilation.
You can even found calcium in egg shell for example.


We prefer andine cornue but she is unfortunately too sensitive at the apical necrosis and less productive than san marzano.But more tasty but she required more care for be reliable.

For improve the vigor and tolerancy at apical necrosis i have cross andine cornue with canestrino di lucca.

At worst if chickens attacked tomato you can do eadily cutting of tomato.Put the rod in water glass and she exit root.

[Randy Simmons]

Welcome to the forum!  This year tomatoes are the vegetable doing well in my garden.  Sauce and salsa are my main uses for them as well.  What kind of squash did you plant?

[Kadence Luneman]

Thanks all for the warm welcome

The family farm is in total 250 acres. Of that my dad owns less than 2ac and my aunt across the road owns less than 2ac. Alot of it is wooded, with I think about a third of it is hay field. My great uncle used to run cows but it's been only hay production really in my lifetime and I'm 30.
When I was growing up we had dairy goats, hand milking 8 does twice a day by hand and bottle feeding the kids. Dad's really excited to have goats again, he had to sell off because he couldn't do everything himself after my parents divorced, not with his physical limits.

I started with the sheep in November of 2015. Last year at the height in July I had 45 sheep total. I've been narrowing them down and in a way am landrace breeding them to fit my needs and the farm. So I'm currently at 17 total. A proven ram and a ram lamb I bought this summer. 5 proven ewes. 1 ewe from last year that will be bred the first time this fall. Should have been another of last year's keeper ewes but last week she strangled herself in the chicken netting fence in a way that made absolutely no sense how she managed it or why she jammed her head through the small netting, and she has been raised with the electric netting so all around no idea how or why she managed it. Frustrating but also if she's that dumb I'm not dealing with her in the future but it would have been much better to sell or put in the freezer. Of this springs lambs there are 3 keeper ewe lambs and I bought 2 ewe lambs. Then four lambs that are going to be separated and grained to be sold in the fall when the prices go up.

I've got a ton of stuff I'm going to try growing and several projects in mind so I'll be breaking those down in several posts after this... Because I talk alot...

[Kadence Luneman]

Project Rye grain-
I have a 50# bag of grain rye purchased as cover crop seed. I want to harvest and keep seed because I'd like to have some that is becoming more and more adapted to my garden. I'd like to not have to buy more for cover cropping. I'd like to see what the harvest is like and how doable grain for my own flour is.

Project wheat grain-
I have a palm full of wheat seed that was being threshed with antique equipment. The person who brought it in to thresh harvested it by hand from a neighbors small field that didn't want to bother with it. They were going to feed the grain to their goats and straw for bedding. When they cleaned up and left there was grain all over so I gathered it up and kept it. It's a few years old and seems ok kept in a sandwich baggie in a jar of seeds. Conversation basically had been "uhh turkey something".. "hmm something red".. "it was tall and there was seed head waist high and shoulder high on the same stalk".. I think of it as red turkey wheat since I have no idea.
I'd like to plant it but wasn't sure if I should fall plant? I don't know anything else about it so winter or spring, don't know if a spring variety would survive winter? I may do it just so I don't keep it in the seed stash more years.
I also got a pack of evolution wheat. I think it's been bred out from Joseph's project? I only see the wheat grex at the moment. I think I recall from his thread about planting really early in spring and may or may not qualify for chill time spring planting anywhere. I will probably separate the unknown wheat from the evolution wheat so I can compare before deciding to combine it all.
I want to at least keep growing a plot of wheat to get it adapted and build up some amount of seed.

Project oat grain-
Packet Amber's hulless oats. Pretty much same as for wheat. Build up seed and experience.

Tomatoes-
This year I have in Roma and San Marzano. I think only 3 of 24 plants are Roma, thanks to the chicken madness. They are knee high and one is loaded with round fruits. The other two are a bit scraggly but have fruits. I don't think I can judge them too hard this year with all the shenanigans they had to survive at the start. But the San Marzano are waist to shoulder high and most are loaded with oblong fruits. I had planned on keeping them pinched to one main stem to climb up... But I didn't do it often enough and when I went through to prune and tie them up there was alot more branching than I thought. I trimmed the leaves up so none touch the ground. If there was big stems from the base of the plant and it was loaded with fruits I left it but I trimmed all the further branching from them. The plants with multiple stems I picked the best one and the others I cut off the top of the stem. My idea being to stop it from going up and up and to ripen the fruits on it. Then the best stem I don't mind it keeping growing up.
I did a kind of "Florida weave" staking. I have some really tall t-posts and in the ground the tops are about my height (5' 6"). Across the top of the posts is a line of twine. I planned on using twine hanging from that to train the plants up. After realizing how bushy it was all getting I went back and tied in three lines going across them from knee to waist height. So I could tie the branches to those cross lines. It's working well, I think I'll do the same next year.. and hopefully be better about keeping them pruned..

I have the following seed-
*Big Hill (from EFN), 70-90 days, determinant.
*Exserted Orange (from EFN), 70-90 days, determinant?
*Neandermato/habrochaites (from EFN), assuming indeterminate since it's wild.
*Roma.. Don't have but I want to save seed from the best plants I have this year. 75 days, indeterminate.

My plan at the moment is...
San Marzano, 10 plants
Big Hill, 10 plants
Exserted Orange, 10 plants
Habrochaites, 5 plants
-hand pollinate habro pollen to SM, BH, and EO for F1s. General goals- big open flowers, exserted stigmas, does best for me, flavor.
-hand pollinate EO pollen to SM for F1s. General goals- big open flowers, exserted stigmas, does best for me, flavor. Basically a sauce/salsa tomato that's better than just SM.
-hand pollinate BH pollen to SM for F1s. Same as previous just different cross.
-save seed best habro, bulk. Is 5 plants too few? They aren't really my goal, which is the crosses from them. But I have had volunteer tomatoes and squash so I could in the future probably set aside some space to trial overwinter seeds. Which seems like something that could be of interest on here.
-save seed best SM, bulk. Will be second generation seed grown here.
-save seed best BH, bulk.
-save seed best EO, bulk.
It seemed like exserted orange is related to big hill so it may not be that useful to cross them by hand since I'll have both?

Tomato question!! I have a ton of horse nettle (solanum carolinense). It's in the hay fields and my sheep pastures. I'm trying to eradicate it because if eaten in much quantity could be toxic to livestock. And it's a thorny b!*** and I go barefoot!
Is this something that could potentially cross into tomatoes?
I also have a bunch of something I'm trying to identify. Pretty sure it's a datura something. Also trying to eradicate from the fields/pastures.

[Steph S]

I've read about Turkey Red, it's a fall planted wheat. 

[Kadence Luneman]

Squash!

*Butternut Rogosa violina Gioia, moschata, 100 days.
*Butternut Lofthouse landrace, moschata, ?days.
*Nanticoke, maxima, 110 days. A landrace, should be many colors and shapes.
*Jarrahdale, maxima, 100 days. Blue pumpkin shape.
*Candy Georgia roaster, maxima, 95 days. Pink banana shape.
*Connecticut field pumpkin, pepo, 100 days.
*Sugar pie pumpkin, pepo, 100 days.
*Acorn, pepo, 80 days.
*Lemon squash, pepo, 55 days. Summer squash, they looked cool and I couldn't resist!

I want to turn this hodgepodge into landraces. One for each of the species. However..

Pepo-
I'm not that into acorn squash. I may plant all the seed and not do it again. But I am curious if acorn x pumpkin has been done since they're pepo.
The pie and field pumpkins are going to be primarily for large plantings in a field with cover crops. Then I'll harvest a couple for seed and pie and the rest will be for the livestock. Pumpkins are great for "flushing" which is a rising plane of nutrition to induce the animals to breed better. So instead of all singles you get more twins, or more triplets. Or even just less that don't breed at all. The chickens are also happy to devour them.

The lemon squash I'm going to try but probably won't do more. I'm not that into summer squashes. My mom uses to have us assembly line processing zucchini and making vast amounts of zucchini bread. If I never see zucchini bread again it'll be too soon! I just couldn't resist them last time I bought seeds, the little yellows orbs.

Moschata-
Butternuts are my favorite squash so far. This will just be a general project to select for what does the best here and flavor.

Maxima-
I've never grown any of these before. The Nanticoke pulled me in with the landrace and various shapes and colors. The jarrahdale are a lovely blue and just such an aesthetic old time pumpkin shape. My friend always buys a couple Georgia roasters in the fall and goes on and on about them. So I have eaten them before and they were good and similar to Butternut or sweet potatoes.
This will just be a general project to select for what does the best here and flavor.
I'm going to be hard pressed for selection though! As much as I want it in one landrace I also want to do some individual selections to play with shape and color. To be determined!

[Kadence Luneman]

I've read about Turkey Red, it's a fall planted wheat. 

Awesome!  Thanks! Now if I can get the garden beds all ready I should be good

[Kadence Luneman]

Corn!

Dorinny sweet corn, 75 days.
I like sweet corn but not set on keeping regular seed. Will depend on space with everything else.

Harmony grain corn, 85-115 days.
Possibly picking out sweet kernels/cobs to set aside for a sweet corn line. Select for what does best here. Amass seed quantity. I dream of a big area of corn for the livestock and make a dent in my feed bill. Select for maturity time? Shorten window?

High carotene flint corn, 100 days.
I'd like to build up the amount of seed. Incorporate into grain corn line?

Lofthouse flour corn, 100 days.
Dad and I are in the local historical society and dad is in charge of the flour mill. So I somewhat have some access to antique machinery and flour mill. There is a festival in October and they sell flour milled there.
Big dream- amass amount of seed that I could plant a large area.. sell limited quantity to mill for some special all local cornmeal to sell there.. ideally enough to have some for myself too..
Pro+ added small income stream would be great!

[Kadence Luneman]

Tobacco-
For funzies. Dad chews. I do like that it seems pretty simple. And if the world gets too crazy I'll have tobacco to trade.

Amaranth-
I got a packet of "love lies bleeding". It was a marked down seed packet at the store. We'll see how it does. The seed is tiny but looks easy to get seed from. Not like threshing grains. I think the leaves are edible too.

White cucumber-
Got as a free packet in my order. Seems interesting. I don't really do cukes or pickles but I'm sure the chickens will eat them and I have people I can give them to.

Lofthouse Oliverson muskmelon-
Honestly I don't like cantaloupe/muskmelon but after hearing/reading the story from Joseph.. well it found it's way in my seed order.. My papa likes them.
We also have tons of groundhogs here and they are melon gluttons. My dad's garden this year he doesn't have any kind of melon or squash that hasn't been repeatedly eaten to stems. It'll be interesting to see if I do any better.

Leeks-
I have seed for "American flag". 150+ days. I'd like to get some more seed of varieties/grex/landrace from EFN and baker creek. Then probably throw it all together and select from there. I don't think having different sizes will be a big deal. I don't use leeks much because it gets pricey at stores and usually they aren't that nice anyway. So grow lots and have lots to cull out and cook. Ha!

Green onions-
I got Red Welsh and He Shi Ko-Bunching. Probably just throw them all in and cull out stragglers. They seem really good for seeding some every week or so. And they can be intercropped with lots of things to optimize bed space.

[Kadence Luneman]

Carrot- I have tried growing carrots.. probably four times.. I have grown one carrot, and it was the last attempt. After all season and I was digging the bed to level it for winter and found one ~2 inch very woody carrot that looked like it should have had a peg leg and a permanent scowl.
I know now that clay soil is not good for carrots and there is much more to root veg than just planting seeds and keeping it watered. I'm hoping I can get the garden beds done and amendments that will give me a fighting chance.
I also got a few grow bags at a resale store for pretty cheap. I'm going to fill them with compost and better soil mix and see how I do with that.
Chantenay red core, 75 day. Baker Creek.
Koral carrot, 75 day. Baker Creek.
Zanahoria short 'n sweet, 68 days.
Little finger, 60-65 days.
Danvers half long, 70 days.

Would like to get:
Lofthouse carrot
Over the Rainbow mix
Amarillo, 75 day, yellow
Black nebula, 75 day, dark purple
St Valery, 70 day
Oxheart, 90 day, huge but shy seed production

Beet- I have a couple packets, cheaper store packet and Cylindra beet from Baker Creek. I'm also interested in trying to use beet juice as a fiber dye. Would like to get:
beet 3 root grex
Golden grex

Mangel beet- Never grown before. Really interested in it for winter livestock feed. And seed is not cheap to use it for livestock feed so it would definitely be worth selecting and keeping seed if it is doable and the sheep eat it.

Spinach- Nutritious.. I aspire to being the kind of person who eats more veggies.. I will attempt to pick baby spinach for salads and eat it like a real adult..
Fall hardy plant and seems like a good candidate to play with winter greens. If nothing else I'm sure the chickens will like winter greens. Which makes eggs and chicken meat. I am primarily a second hand vegetarian..

Purple top turnip- I may have bought a 3# bag of it... Makes a good cover crop. Livestock can graze it. See previous about chickens winter greens.

Gr bean- I bought a large packet and honestly do not need 243 gr bean plants but I also don't want the seed to just stay in the stash forever. Several years ago I planted like 10 seed right in the garden and it got overtaken in weeds and I forgot about them. Later I went to clear weeds (basically everything around a couple tomato and pepper plants) and found these green beans trying to hold their own in the mess.
I know they can cross pollinate with the dry beans so they'll be separated in the garden.

Peas- Some are 60 days and some are 80 days.

Cowpea- Never grown before. Never eaten before. They are good for cover cropping and livestock can graze it. Grow and amass seed.

Dry bean grex- Never grown dry beans. Grow and amass seed.

Red cabbage- Never grown cabbage.

Arugula & Mustard- A couple years ago I planted an area in arugula and mustard. When it bolted I cut off the tops and cleaned it to keep the seed. It's mixed together. I'm not sure if it was a regular mustard or Mizuna which seem to be different things. I don't remove anymore so I'll have to plant it and ID it when it grows.

Garlic- I'd like to grow garlic. Soft neck for storage, and soft neck might be best here from what I've read so far.
Is there any reason not to just try planting some store garlic? It would probably be hard neck but it would be interesting to have a go. Get some experience.
I need to look in the forum here for where to buy.

Lettuce- Starting from scratch, I don't have any seed. Lettuce seems like it will be fun for breeding, and it's relatively quick results.
Wishlist:
Little gem, 50 day, romaine head.
Crisp mint, 65 day, romaine head.
Rocky top mix, 30-70 day, mixed varieties.
May queen, 50 day, butterhead.
Tom thumb, 60 day, 3-4" cabbage-like heads.
Tennis ball, 55 day, 4-6" butterhead.
Bronze beauty, 40-50 day, arrowhead leaf, bronzed green color.
Lunix, 45 day, oak leaf, dark red.

[Kadence Luneman]

Herb/flower bed-
This will be a permanent bed. Probably in a bed toward the middle to draw in pollinators. Plants for herbal usage or fiber dye, secondary purpose for pollinators.
*Common Yarrow, have seed and am watching the flowers in the pasture to try to collect for seed from the native wild stuff.
*Calendula pacific beauty mix. I want it for it's herbal usage but couldn't find like "regular Calendula" this seemed to be the closest thing.
*Echinacea purpose
*Yellow prairie coneflower (ratibida columnifera) A native flower. Mainly for pollinators. Checked it doesn't have toxicity before I got it, in case it self seeds out of the garden.
*Dyers Coreopsis. For natural dye.
*Woad. For natural dye.

Flax- for fiber use. I have seed for 100 sq ft. It's also good for mycorrhizal fungi. I'd like to keep growing and selecting it to be adapted here.

Marigolds- I have a jar full of seed. A couple years ago I had a little bed of them and would dead head the fully matured ones and stocked them up for seeds. I had a couple cheap store packets and a couple packets from Baker Creek. I don't think they were kinds that are on the site now because I know at least one packet was a neat old variety with smaller flowers.
I have a packet from Baker Creek that's "brocade mix" and a packet from a natural dye place, assuming common type.

And this year there was a flat of marigolds in the clearance at Walmart so I got them because I could pop em right in between the tomato plants. Because I hadn't started any from my seed. I'm collecting the flowers pretty regularly in full bloom because I'm going to dye with it. After I have a ton or at the end of the season I want to leave the flowers to mature seed heads and collect that seed too.

I may be able to sell seed/plants/flowers/dye and I really like these flowers. I would like to have a bed of marigolds as part of my main projects. I also don't think it would hurt for crop rotation needs since it's very different than veggies. I'm not sure if they are heavy feeders? I wouldn't think so?
I'd also be very curious if anyone know what kind of crossing rate marigolds have? I'm assuming high since they are big open flowers.


....ok I think that's everything....