Author Topic: Flower Breeding?  (Read 478 times)

Diane Whitehead

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Flower Breeding?
« on: 2022-04-20, 07:30:24 PM »
I am not suggesting we add flower breeding to our forum, but I wonder if there is a forum already devoted to flowers.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #1 on: 2022-04-20, 09:26:18 PM »
I don't think so. If there was, I didn't find it when I went to put my thread on pansies in it.

reed

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #2 on: 2022-04-21, 07:14:02 AM »
Flowers are often patented and variety protected, I think discussion about them is perfectly appropriate for this forum.

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #3 on: 2022-04-21, 10:39:05 AM »
I found an online discussion:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/hybridizing

There are a lot of posts about zinnias, but also one about pansies:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4084381/hybridizing-pansies-and-other-annuals#n=29

Diane
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #4 on: 2022-04-21, 01:39:59 PM »
     As far as I am concerned, crossing pansies and getting new color mixes is damn easy. It's crossing them and being able to PREDICT the results that are more or less impossible. Pansies and violas seem to have the most jittery genes of any flowers I know. It seems like literally ANYTHING can happen, even when the cross with apparent clones of themselves, or even cross WITH themselves.

   A few years ago, I got my hands on about 3/4 of a flat of the viola Blackberry Sorbet, and planted them all en masse, collecting all of their seeds as the year passed so I could not have to buy more next year (this proved prudent, as the nursery's stopped carrying that viola after that year). But when I planted them (which had by and large either selfed or if they crossed, crossed with another Blackberry sorbet, I got some sort of wild segregation. About half reverted to Johnny-Jump up colors (purple uppers, yellow lower with black whiskers and a purple dot). A quarter went pure dark purple, and the remaining quarter actually DID come back true (purple uppers, black lower).

Then there was the first seed grown pansy I got to flower, which kept a domestic color scheme (yellow with a black blotch) but managed to shrink itself (plant AND flower) to the size of a field pansy (Viola arvensis, the little itty bitty cream one that's a weed of ditches and lawns).

My current quest, as I have mentioned before concerns red violas (which I have at least now been able to get the name for, looks like the ones I am always after is Syngenta's Rocky Red with Blotch). There, i'm currently less interested in crossing them than I am at simply getting them to SEED, as RRWB seems to have lousy fertility (which could go a long way to explaining why there is so little of it in the mixed trays when comparted to every other color.)   

reed

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #5 on: 2022-04-21, 02:23:59 PM »
     As far as I am concerned, crossing pansies and getting new color mixes is damn easy. It's crossing them and being able to PREDICT the results that are more or less impossible. Pansies and violas seem to have the most jittery genes of any flowers I know. It seems like literally ANYTHING can happen, even when the cross with apparent clones of themselves, or even cross WITH themselves.   

Ha, that sounds a lot like sweet potatoes. Seeds from self-pollinated plants don't always come out the same, not to mention that many say they are not self-compatible at all, which is true, "usually".

I'm not sure what kind of violets I have, they range from dark purple to white with some bi-color or splotchy. Pure white is the least common. Pure white is least common in other of my flowers too. Dames Rocket and fall Asters for example, pure white must be recessive in all those things maybe controlled by more than one gene. This spring I discovered a white flowered Creeping Charlie plant, first time I've ever seen that, I'm going to let it go to seed.

I haven't done a lot of hands-on breeding but seeing new things show up in Zinnias, Daliahs, Poppies, scented Geraniums and especially Virgina Blue (or pink) Bells is fun.

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #6 on: 2022-04-21, 04:01:59 PM »
Most likely the Common Blue Violet, Viola soraria, i.e. the same kind I have growing wild in my area. They come in purple, white, white with a purple eye (called Confederate Violets) Delft (white with purple speckles, though those are not natural and must be actively planted.) and so on.

White flowered ground ivy, eh. Well, I suppose ANY plant can throw white flowers from time to time (as the absence of any pigment, white is pretty much the only color that ANY flower can be).

And you are right, it is recessive, because it's usually defective (i.e. the flower is white because the pathway to make the pigment to color it is broken).

In a similar vein, every now and again I see a white or pink flowered chicory (as opposed to the normal blue) and think that is odd enough to make a point of getting seeds from it (unfortunately, I usually see said plants on the edge of the roadway from the car, and so have no way to actually GO and get seed.)


reed

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #7 on: 2022-04-21, 07:14:27 PM »

In a similar vein, every now and again I see a white or pink flowered chicory (as opposed to the normal blue) and think that is odd enough to make a point of getting seeds from it (unfortunately, I usually see said plants on the edge of the roadway from the car, and so have no way to actually GO and get seed.)
Same here, I see all kinds of interesting things along the road. I live in a very rural area though, so I keep orange ribbon in the truck and stop and put a tag so I can go back later and get seeds, or just dig up the plant. That's where all my asters, and many other things came from including Virgina Pink Bells.

The pink bells were a transplant and died out after a couple of years but then few came back in a different spot.  I thought at first it might be a case where it was caused by ph of the soil like with hydrangeas, but I don't think so because they are the blue ones grow together. There are just a few pink ones in the patch, maybe 5% at most.

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #8 on: 2022-04-22, 07:06:17 AM »
That's actually a pretty good idea, though I'd also have to carry something to KEEP the plant in on the way home (I did try something like that with a strange white flowered vetch like plant I saw growing near a parking lot, but between missing most of the root and most of the plant having been weedwhacked away, it didn't last long enough for the flower to make a pod.)

I'd be REALLY good come late summer/fall when I have to keep my eye out for feral apple trees (the area of the East Coast I am on is OLD, in terms of settling, so there are not decades but CENTURIES of odd cultivated fragments left from God knows what long ago farms and homesteads that have since crumbled into dust (pretty much the same reason for all of the stone walls in the woods around here.) Those tree's apples tend to be crap for eating*, but possibly good for cider (plus, the fact that they have managed to survive a century or two with no ones help speaks well of their resiliency). Now if only I was better at grafting.......

 *Though oddly, not all. Over on the path that runs by the local soccer field are some trails which ultimately lead to the old brickworks. At one point on the trail the is an area called the "crabapple orchard", a stand consisting of a lot of little, shrubby, small fruited crabapples and one HUGE tree whose fruit is rather larger (about cherry sized). The tiny ones are useless (they're not only sour and too small to bother with, but they're all seeds inside). But the fruit off the big one tastes as good as any apple I've had (well, any apple of the Granny Smith level of tartness).     

Adrian

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Re: Flower Breeding?
« Reply #9 on: 2022-04-22, 09:34:11 AM »
We can try to open threads on the graft