Author Topic: Shortest season tomatoes  (Read 704 times)

William S.

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Shortest season tomatoes
« on: 2022-01-04, 04:20:46 PM »
Lots of tomatoes in the united states have their shortness of season from transplant abbreviated. The shortest I have found is sweet cherriette at 35 DTM though I would say that is with starting eight weeks before transplant and growing really healthy seedlings. That into account and it is 91 days from seed to ripe fruit with seed. Anmore Dewdrop a dehybridized tumbler is quick. 42 days is quick. The strain of Jagodka I got from Earl is quick. Brad from Joseph is quick. Wild Child is quick. I have gotten very early perhaps comparable results from some sibling lines of my MMS project and some of my earliest F2 reds in 2019. Coyote is also pretty fast as is terrior's yellow tomato they sell as cheesemanii. Microdwarf and miniature tomato plants like Aztek, Gold Pearl, and Pinnochio seem exceptionally early.

I just saw this about Latah uprising organics got ripe fruit in 5 weeks which just happens to be 35 days.

Checking with snake river they say 55 to 60 days for the same tomato.

That could be normal variation though. If everything goes perfectly sometimes we do get some earlier fruit off of tomato plants!

https://uprisingorganics.com/collections/tomatoes/products/tomato-latah

https://www.snakeriverseeds.com/products/tomato-latah-1

I find that direct seeding vs transplanting, how cold or hot it is, and how well the plants are growing can affect things. Sometimes seed seems to be of higher quality when I grow it myself and it is fresh and sometimes seed people send me seems of higher quality than my own. For instance Mike Jennings sent me Forest Fire seed that leapt from the ground but my own seed the next year was less vigorous. I honestly think it would be a good idea to do two years of trials with seed saved the same way.

2017 from Transplant:
Earl's Jagodka
Sweet Cherriette
Tumbler F1
Sungold F2
Coyote

2017 Direct Seeded:
Sweet Cherriette
Sungold F2
Krainiy Sever
42 days
anmore dewdrop
Betalyuks
A Joseph Lofthouse landrace potato leaf

2018
Brad
Brad x
Blue Ambrosia
Earl's Jagodka
Anmore Dewdrop

2019
MMS Project F2 early saved 41 seeds
Terrior Cheesemanii
Earliest Red Direct Seeded F2

2020
Wild Child was an important additional early

2021
Krainiy Sever
Earl's Jagodka
Exserted Tiger
Coyote
Promiscuous project
Sweet Cherriette
Pinnochio
Mission Mountain Sunrise
Big Hill

What are your earliest tomatoes? I noticed in our tomato journal Greenie DS mentioned Sweet Cherriette, Bloody Butcher, and Exserted Orange. Joseph has often said that Brad and Jagodka are his earliest. I had forgotten that Betalyuks was high on my 2017 list as well as Krainiy Sever.

Kibits and Kalinka are supposed to be early but they didn't make it to my top ten in 2017.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-04, 08:34:27 PM by William S. »
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Tim DH

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #1 on: 2022-01-05, 08:17:06 AM »
Hi William,
   I’ve only been keeping detailed notes for the last couple of years. … I’ve started noting two things. A date for first ripe fruit AND a date for first 100g of fruit!

Last year my earliest producers were Latah (5th July, 100g 13th July) and Imur Prior Beta (5th July, 100g 17th July) These had been planted out into an unheated greenhouse on April 9th and they had survived a surprise late/hard frost which got into the greenhouse on April 21st.

In the previous year (2020) my earliest were both Imur Prior Beta. (25th June, 100g 25th June) and (6th July, 100g 10th July). The first of these had been planted out on 13th April, the second on 30th March. (I didn’t grow Latah in 2020)

Next year I intend to add Moskvich, Stupice and Bloody Butcher to my earlies. If the forecast looks favourable I’ll plant out mid April.

Tim DH

William S.

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #2 on: 2022-01-05, 01:13:25 PM »
I had to look up Imur Prior Beta it sounds like an early potato leaf not too dissimilar from Brad, Matina and Bloody Butcher. It is available in the U.S. from the Sandhill Conservation Center as are many of these including the Idaho tomatoes like Latah and Payette.

Stupice also known by its original name Stupicke is one of the old stand-by familiar names around here along with Glacier and a few others. It performs fine in my garden and is early enough. I tried Bloody Butcher in 2017 I remember it maybe being extra dark red, early but not exceptionally early.

I haven't ever tried Moskvich though I've heard the name before.
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Greenie DeS

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #3 on: 2022-01-05, 02:17:14 PM »
My earliest decent-sized harvest from blossoms set after transplanting was Minsk Early from experimental farm network, followed closely by glacier, morovsky div, . Many of my very-early ones ripened a fruit or two from indoor set then took a big break; the indeterminates like stupice and bloody butcher, and dwarfs like czech bush and uralsky ranniy tended to do that. Rozovaya bella also did; it's tended to be my first black but it really had a weird year last year after ripening one tomato per plant (crazing on the skin of all tomatoes too, almost russetting). I would never exclude silvery fir tree from a discussion of early tomatoes; it sets and ripens fruit for me every year no matter where I am though it's never the earliest it's never failed me even in my climate.

Er, long story short, I'm not sure if a lot of my earliest tomatoes would have been as early if I had disbudded at transplant, and I suspect they would have been a lot more productive.

My indoor sweet cheriette was fast; outdoors it slowed down in my cool climate and was grouped in with the earlies but not in the first 5 to ripen. It was much more productive out there though. The outdoor ones were transplanted July 10 and gave me fruit July 4, but the bulk of the fruit came in August.

I'm very interested to see what my saved seed does this year, as well as to set my greens in a dedicated space so I don't overlook them. Greens and blacks tend to be my favourite flavours and I think I missed first fruit on a bunch of them. I am super excited for Lucinda, which is a silvery fir tree x green zebra Wagner cross. I'm also very curious to see if Big Hill manages to ripen more than a couple late fruits this year.

I have Latah from Heritage Harvest on my list for this year, as well as EFN's Jagodka and Heritage Harvest's Yagodka. I, too, hadn't previously heard of Imur Prior Beta. Don't think I can get it here.

Anyhow, last year I planted my transplants June 10, by the end of July I had harvested at least one each of:
KARMA Taiga
Sweet cheriette
Exserted orange
Rozovaya bella
KARMA miracle (I think this was hella productive and I just missed seeing most of the green fruit)
Cole
Matt's wild cherry
Ambrosia Red
Jory
Bloody Butcher
Silvery fir tree
and my mystery grocery store green cherry
Maybe a Maya & Sion's Airdrie Classic?

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #4 on: 2022-01-05, 06:52:09 PM »
I vaguely remember getting tomatoes in mid July one year, determinates but I don't remember which.

I do have a list of ones that had produced by August 1 one year:

Anmore Dewdrop, Anmore Treasures, Austin's Red Pear
Bolivianische Obsttomate, Brad's Atomic Grape, Bursztyn
Cascade Lava, Christmas Grapes, Clare's, Cocktail Crush
Dwarf Melanie's Ballet
Galina's Yellow
Kotlas
Mat-Su Express
Oaxacan Jewel
Stupicke Sklenikove
SunGold, Sweet Aperitif, Sweet Orange II

I will keep better notes this year, though I haven't decided which ones I'll grow - I have about 400 kinds of tomato seeds, and choose a different selection every year, though I always grow Tim Peters' Sweet Orange II, as it is early and then just before frost I pick all the fruit still on the vine.  They keep in good condition till early April.  (They're always gone before then, but one year I put a Don't Eat sign on a bowlful of them, just to see how long they'd keep.)
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cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

galina gardiner

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #5 on: 2022-01-06, 05:36:17 AM »
When we contributed to the 1999 and 2000 internet tomato project, we had to list days to first flower and days to first ripe fruit.  Sadly the project never came to anything, but the timing to first flower is far more accurate than a vague after planting out and the first flower to first ripe fruit is also a good measure for early tomatoes. 

Tim DH

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #6 on: 2022-01-06, 06:55:51 AM »
Hi Galina,
   Welcome to the forum. … ‘Galina’ is a name with an honourable history in early tomatoes! Bill McDorman credits a Galina with gifting him 60 varieties of tomatoes from Siberia.

https://www.seedsavers.org/the-rise-of-heirloom-seeds-bill-mcdorman

        I agree with you about the irritating vagueness of 'days to maturity after planting out'. The toms I plant out definitely aren't of a consistent maturity in the first place!
 
Tim DH

William S.

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #7 on: 2022-01-06, 09:38:04 AM »
Will be trying the tomato Galina and its descendent Dwarf Galen's Yellow in 2022!

Tim Peters also bred Sweet Cherriette, Native Sun (I'll be trying in 2022), Forest Fire and a number of other tomatoes many of them early. Though I hadn't heard of Sweet Orange II.

I am trying Brad's atomic grape for 2022 Baker Creek lists it as 75 DTM though I got mine directly from Wild Boar Farms.

400 varieties are a lot though some tomato collectors have thousands. My recent excel spreadsheet has increased quite a bit recently but it has currently about 231 things I consider to be unique with some more expected from trades. I am not sure how many of the several thousand tomato varieties in existence are really important for a collection or even for preservation?! It would be nice to have some more information for some of them. I read recently it is hard to taste more than twenty varieties or so at a time in a taste test. I collected what seemed like a lot of early red tomatoes in 2017 and am not sure I want to keep them all. I did read in Craig LeHoullier's book that they keep well for up to about 14 years so maybe I shouldn't be too concerned about growing them out and regenerating them on a fast time schedule.

I've tried bloody butcher and silvery fir tree. One of the local seed growers grows seed for silvery fir tree and swears by it here for a determinate red tomato that ripens all its tomatoes. I am going to be trying Flamenco a silvery fir tree descendent according to the J & L gardens website of Lee Goodwin bred for heat tolerance. After the 2021 heat wave kind of playing haywire with some of my tomatoes I thought it might be a good idea to add something heat tolerant for 2022.

I agree that the DTM system is flawed. It matters how seedlings are grown, temperatures, light, potting medium, and transplanting schedule vs direct seeding vs season extension methods. Then climate and growing conditions matter for the adult plants. How frequently weeded, use of mulch, soil, and a lot of other factors. Then I wonder for instance if I got a variety from multiple sources would it vary within variety- because sometimes the variety has actually developed some variation within the same name either from mutations, mislabeling, or unintended crosses or what have you!

I've grown Sweet Cherriette now for five growing seasons. It is usually the first or tied with the first if grown under equal conditions even though I didn't list it for all years. In 2019 some of the segregating reds did produce fruit faster under the same growing conditions which was basically dry farmed direct seeding. However, to be true to its claim of 35 DTM I would say you need to grow Sweet Cherriette for eight weeks before transplant not six, and produce optimum large vigorous transplants grown with good light, soil medium, temperature, and proper watering. Then the growing season needs to be good after transplanting. Under the many suboptimal conditions, I exposed the variety to it varies. Crowding can slow it down, being shaded out by taller varieties isn't good, direct seeding is different- and dry farmed other genetics were faster. Also, notably under many conditions which I considered equal varieties that by their DTM numbers of around as much as 55 DTM like Sungold shouldn't have been competitive were and ended up producing ripe fruit at the same time. I consider it a standard against which to judge, and I don't think it has been dethroned yet from that perch in my garden, but the potential could be out there somewhere! I also haven't managed to make any certain crosses with it! I seem to make only a few crosses a year and even though it is on my to do list, it hasn't happened. I did notice some modest exsertion of the stigma in it for the first-time last year. I just planted some in hopes of making a cross maybe in March. It produces small amounts of pollen also and has fragile stigmas that seem to dry up if emasculated outside here. So an indoor early season cross is probably my best hope for it in 2022.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-06, 09:44:59 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

galina gardiner

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #8 on: 2022-02-20, 08:40:35 AM »
Tim DH, what a great story.  Yes Galina is indeed a favourite here too. 


Steph S

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #9 on: 2022-02-20, 12:18:32 PM »
I also use days from seed (sprouting) to first flower, and to first blush, as relevant data for earliness.
DTM from plantout is based on assumptions about the age of the plant as well as the climate, well it's a ballpark for unknowns but not that useful.
All the tomatoes I grow have buds on them by plantout time at about 7-8 weeks from seed.
In a cold season, or planting really early and letting them tough it out, your days from flower to pea sized set will be longer, as also time from set to blush.
We would have to be reckoning the degree-days to have a standard that applies to all places and years.

In my trials of OPs the two earliest tomatoes were Kimberley and Beaverlodge Plum.
Both of those have the early flowering gene, they flower two weeks earlier than other varieties.
The Beaverlodge Plum that produced early and quite copiously was unfortunately tasteless.
There was another iirc Siberian Early Pink or some such name, produced a ton of early cherry size fruit in the cold which were unfit for fresh eating.
Kimberley produced the first fruit that was good to eat, but in several years of growouts, the actual production of main crop was no different from the next wave of early:
Moravsky Div, Stupice and others.   Cold slows down the main crop, so early flowering is only helpful if you plant later - or if you have no cold constraints.
Pervaya Lyubov was close to those second earlies maturing just a few days later, and is a larger pink of decent quality.
Black Early is another beef that was also just a few days later than PLyubov for me, but didn't prove to be a reliable cropper over some years.
In our trials at the farm M Div and Pervaya Lyubov were good enough for commercial growing, and are still grown there along with Sungold and others.

Two friends of mine who farm tried the Latah one year, outdoors.  The conclusion - yield was not worth the space.  That was a cold year.
We trialed Moravsky Div, Kimberley, Alaska and Al Kuffah outdoors with black mulch.  None ripened a full crop before the end of season.  That was a warm year.
Remember that we live in a harsh climate with couple weeks of our short summer really rising into the 'goldilocks' temperature zone for tomatoes, normally.  YMMV.

I trialed Jagodka in a different year, don't remember exact days to ripe but it was early.   The fruit were so sour, I panned it.  That was cold and early.
There may also be different strains of it, I didn't try another one as my growing space is busy,  always full of F generations.

William S.

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #10 on: 2022-02-20, 03:49:50 PM »
Fascinating and interesting to me that I have heard a lot of those names but didn't manage to collect them.

I am pretty sure now that the strain of Jagodka I got from Earl is earlier than the strain I got from Joseph.

I was trying to sort out some interesting earlies earlier today from my inventory and this conversation and then one of my sorts didn't work right but here are some of them:
*= new to me

42 Days
Anmore Dewdrop
Brad’s Atomic Grape*
Betalyuks
Bloody Butcher
Coyote
Dry farmed direct seeded red closed flower earliest 2019 (F2-F3 from uncontrolled cross of Blue Ambrosia)
Dwarf Hirsutum Cross
Exserted Orange F4
Exserted tiger F3
Forest Fire
Fourth of July
Galina*
Glacier
Jagodka and Ot’ Jagodka
Kalinka
Kibitz
Krainiy Sever
Lizzano F1 and Lizzano? F3
MMS 2021 Isolated grown in 2021
MMS 2019 Ancestor
Native Sun*
Pinnochio
reticulate mutation of Earls jagodka 2021
Stupice / Stupicke
Sungold F1 and descendants
Sweet Cherriette (My earliness standard)
Terrior Cheesemanii domestic?
Utyonok*
Wild Child
XL? early promiscuous project red and pink (from bicolor) not exserted elites 2021

I'm not sure I'll try to separate an earliness test or trial this year but I think I would like to grow out a lot of my collection this year and just see what pops out as early. Some of the above are things that under certain conditions / years came out as shockingly early.

My wife recently described three of my tomatoes as uniformly 70 DTM. I think I need data!
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William S.

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Re: Shortest season tomatoes
« Reply #11 on: 2022-06-20, 10:18:59 AM »
I planted a number of these things in my 2022 garden. It has had a cold start. I noticed early fruit set on Sweet Cherriette, Mexico Midget, and Blue Strawberry.

In the greenhouse I have a cross between (MMS x BH F1) × Sweet Cherriette maturing and I repeated it. So there will be several such tomatoes. I think with that combined ancestry of Big Hill and Mission Mountain Sunrise it should have the ancestry of the unknown Lofthouse potato leaf, Jagodka, and now sweet Cherriette in the mix. Should be a good cross to watch for earliness.
« Last Edit: 2022-06-20, 12:01:28 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days