Author Topic: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas  (Read 3536 times)

William Schlegel

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #45 on: 2022-07-17, 09:51:01 PM »
I can move MMM F2 x (LA1410 x unknown) into a definite take category.

If nothing else takes and I am able to harvest tomatoes and save seed from what has already taken this year will be an enormously successful one for me in terms of deliberate crosses.

I suspect there will be other fun things to happen. For instance, my favorite F2 of the MMM F2 grow out is in a very crowded high tomato diversity garden and is likely to produce spontaneous crosses.

The MMS x Unknown grow out may yet prove to include MMS x Exserted Tiger which would be a lovely cross. I noticed a tomato in the MMS x Unknown clump in the greenhouse with a narrow anther typical of Exserted Tiger. Can't wait to see the fruit color.

The MMM F2 x Brad's Atomic Grape cross of a few days ago looks fine so far.
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Garrett Schantz

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #46 on: 2022-07-19, 01:42:56 PM »
Pinched off some S. pimpinellifolium flowers and rubbed them onto an Exserted Orange plant with nicely exserted flowers. If S. habrochaites volunteers flower before I move, I will use those as well.

The exserted orange I'm using is mostly by itself. The pimpinellifolium that I'm using is slightly exserted, bees do visit it. Hoping that means it at least has some pollen to donate.

Normally, I don't pinch off flowers. But, this Pimpinellifolium type's fruits are about the same size as "Wonderberries". And they are pretty watery, not bad tasting but I have currant tomatoes that are larger and have the same flavor.

Nice thing about this Pimpinellifolium is it has a sort of dwarf / creeping habit, Peruvianum sized leaves, slightly exserted flowers and decent blight resistance - tends to outgrow blight.

Going to try some other crosses, but I may be moving two months earlier than expected.

Which means less time for fruits to ripen.

Going to be digging up a few rarer types that I know will not give me fruit before the move.

Rather excited. Mississippi seems like it will be a nice place to grow tomatoes and other crops. Didn't plant melons this year, some are longer season and I know they will thrive there.

The particular area I'm moving to is considered Zone 8. I may actually be able to get some perennial solanums to actually survive.

Cathy A

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #47 on: 2022-07-20, 08:53:22 AM »
When breeding the promiscuous and panamorous tomato lines, have you found that a healthy population of bumblebees is sufficient to get plenty of needed crosses? Or is it still good practice to do a significant amount of hand pollination?

Andrew Barney

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #48 on: 2022-07-20, 09:10:54 AM »
Pinched off some S. pimpinellifolium flowers and rubbed them onto an Exserted Orange plant with nicely exserted flowers. If S. habrochaites volunteers flower before I move, I will use those as well.

The exserted orange I'm using is mostly by itself. The pimpinellifolium that I'm using is slightly exserted, bees do visit it. Hoping that means it at least has some pollen to donate.

Normally, I don't pinch off flowers. But, this Pimpinellifolium type's fruits are about the same size as "Wonderberries". And they are pretty watery, not bad tasting but I have currant tomatoes that are larger and have the same flavor.

Nice thing about this Pimpinellifolium is it has a sort of dwarf / creeping habit, Peruvianum sized leaves, slightly exserted flowers and decent blight resistance - tends to outgrow blight.

Going to try some other crosses, but I may be moving two months earlier than expected.

Which means less time for fruits to ripen.

Going to be digging up a few rarer types that I know will not give me fruit before the move.

Rather excited. Mississippi seems like it will be a nice place to grow tomatoes and other crops. Didn't plant melons this year, some are longer season and I know they will thrive there.

The particular area I'm moving to is considered Zone 8. I may actually be able to get some perennial solanums to actually survive.

I have not had success with pinching off small flowers without "buzzing them" with an electric toothbrush. It seems to me that the pollen is often locked away without the frequency needed to shake it loose, at least if the anthers still have a lot of moisture in them.

If you are moving, perhaps pull up some of your plants by the roots and let the nutrients and moisture slowly move into the fruits. It may help you develop more seeds / larger fruits than if you simply cut off green tomatoes to take with you.

I kindof like the creeping habit of the pimp. and cheesmaniae (Galapagos) types. Not sure mine have ever had peruvianum sized leaves though, they often are small sized leaves.

Andrew Barney

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #49 on: 2022-07-20, 09:16:31 AM »
I'm finally getting flowers and fruit set here. Not sure if that is because the summer heat is at its highest now or whether it is because they were planted a bit late. Some have died that I really wanted to survive, but what is left seems to mostly be thriving, so I guess whatever I get may have some heat hardy genetics, so that is good. Hoping for some tasty and unique flavored promiscuous tomatoes this year. I'd be happy with just one unique flavored tomato.


I'm starting to see some of the peas regrowing despite the heat. Many are dead, but they ones that are regrowing may have some regrowth genetics. I think there is enough of a difference between some that are pure dead and those that look to be fine despite the heat that there may be room for selection here. Peas that "die off" after spring but regrow in summer / fall for a second crop may be useful.

William Schlegel

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #50 on: 2022-07-20, 06:48:02 PM »
When breeding the promiscuous and panamorous tomato lines, have you found that a healthy population of bumblebees is sufficient to get plenty of needed crosses? Or is it still good practice to do a significant amount of hand pollination?

I get a lot of closed flowers in my portion of the promiscuous/panormous populations from Joseph. I can't tell for sure what the outcrossing rate is but inserted stigmas suggest selfing. Some habrochaites obligate outcrossing accessions have modest exsertion. So a lot of the trouble is observability.

Obligate outcrossing is hard to observe but exserted stigmas are easy to observe. Potato leaves are also easy to observe because they are recessive and any outcross to regular leaf is a hybrid. So last year on two potato leaf plants with good exsertion I got tremendous outcrossing.

Thus in order to make outcrossing rates very observable my intention is to keep working with potato leaf exserted crosses. That is why all my crosses this year are with my Mission Mountain project. It is potato leaved. It should maybe be the Mission Valley project but the mountains are pretty to look at and hopefully so are the tomatoes.

I'm hoping to find a cross with Exserted tiger and with promiscuous bicolors in the MMS x Unknown crosses. I already have MMS x Big Hill in the F2.

I hope to prioritize crossing with exserted orange sometime but it isn't the highest priority. It is orange, exserted, and short season though!
« Last Edit: 2022-07-20, 08:23:19 PM by William Schlegel »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William Schlegel

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #51 on: 2022-07-22, 01:26:33 PM »
Updated my spreadsheet. I am up to 14 takes now. Just harvested another one. Made a few more crosses in the arthropod resistance garden.
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Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: 2022 Tomato Growouts and breeding experiments ideas
« Reply #52 on: 2022-07-26, 01:53:29 PM »
When breeding the promiscuous and panamorous tomato lines, have you found that a healthy population of bumblebees is sufficient to get plenty of needed crosses? Or is it still good practice to do a significant amount of hand pollination?

Late in the season, when pollinator populations are high, I get great fruit set on the self-sterile lines.

Early in the season, hand pollination would help. A year ago, i grew them in a greenhouse, and fruit set pretty much only happened with manual cross-pollination.

i get good fruit set on the panamorous lines without  manual pollination, because they can both self and cross.