Author Topic: 2021 Corn  (Read 1009 times)

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #15 on: 2021-11-26, 10:03:21 PM »
Greenie DeS: If you are looking for short-season northern-adapted corns, I highly recommend Painted Mountain (flour), and Painted Hills (sweet).

Steph S

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #16 on: 2021-11-27, 11:26:04 AM »
I believe Painted Mountain is the one my friend has been growing out at her farm here for a number of years.   It's a beautiful corn.
They get started in plugs like other 'strictly summer' vegetables - I helped plant them out this year.
Unfortunately the two hurricanes in September knocked them to the ground this time.   
IDK if direct sowing would have made a difference, but it's probably not feasible for us to do here.   Spring is cold and long.

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #17 on: 2021-11-27, 11:36:18 AM »
It's sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for me.  Plant directly (or in small plugs) and the critters eat every seed/seedling for the starch. Wait until they are big enough that the starch is gone, and the roots get so messed up in transplant that nothing comes of the plants.

Tim DH

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #18 on: 2021-11-27, 01:25:04 PM »
   I like transplanting, not just because it lengthens the effective growing season, but also because burying the transplants at double depth encourages rooting further up the stem. This makes the plants MUCH more wind resistant.

   The thing I don’t like about transplanting, is the huge amount of extra time which double depth planting requires! I don’t want to scale up that operation any further, but I do want more land under maize!!

   Hey ho!

Tim DH

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #19 on: 2021-11-27, 08:38:46 PM »
The Hopi tradition, on at least some varieties, is to direct seed ten inches deep!

reed

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #20 on: 2021-11-28, 02:43:51 AM »
In my garden corn does not come up well if planted too deep. I like planting deeper because I think it makes it more resistant to being plucked out by birds and gets the roots down deeper for better access to moisture if it turns off dry, but four inches is pushing the limit.

I did an experiment a few years ago where I laid out 400 kernels in wet paper towels in the warm sun. My intent was to see if seed harvested before natural dry down sprouted as well as seed that dried more fully on the stalk. For the most part it did but I noticed the sprouts and especially the roots were not as large as on the naturally dried seed.

I kind of expected that but what I also noticed within both groups was that the root and sprout development had significant variation. Some seeds developed more robust root systems ahead of leaves, some did the opposite. I suspect that faster root development is probably an advantage but since the seed, again within each group, showed no apparent difference I don't know how to select for that.

Except, I remember Carol Deppe mentioning this very thing. She said not to get in too big a hurry in thinning a patch and don't necessarily cull the smaller sprouts as they may be the ones that grew roots first.  I wonder if planting deeper but thicker to compensate for non-sprouting and allow culling if the big roots first trait might be encouraged.

« Last Edit: 2021-11-28, 02:47:33 AM by reed »

Tim DH

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #21 on: 2021-11-28, 07:52:59 AM »
I’ve noted Dave Christensen advocating planting Painted Mountain ‘deep’, but I’ve not read what deep exactly means!

I like the idea of planting deep as a way of selecting for those that can cope with it, but I think I’ll start at a bit less than 10” !!

Tim DH

Greenie DeS

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #22 on: 2021-12-03, 11:46:04 AM »
Reed,

There are three companies in Canada that sell Blue Jade corn seeds:

La ferme coopérative Tourne-Sol,  La Societe des plantes,  Prairie Garden Seeds

Of course, it is very tricky getting seeds into the U.S. and most foreign companies won't do it.

Diane

Diane and reed, than kyou for the suggestions, Baby Jade is definitely going on the list.

 I am in Canada! Unfortunately prairie garden seeds isn't doing veggies this year, just grains (and for them it seems corn is a veggie). I haven't been able to find Altagold within Canada and Sandhill doesn't ship, but I'll keep my eyes open for it. In general I try to find cool-weather seed sources, since if they can ripen seed there it'll be more likely to do well here.

Greenie DeS

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #23 on: 2021-12-03, 11:49:41 AM »
I've been thinking about Painted Mountain. My understanding is that it started out super diverse and it's available in many places, so I'd expect the genetic content from any particular producer to vary considerably after a couple years of intentional/unintentional selection. I'd want to source probably the most diverse source (?) and the coolest source (Steph's friend? I know it's very cool over there) and see how they do against each other (and everything else, of course).

Greenie DeS

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #24 on: 2021-12-03, 12:02:40 PM »
With regards to planting style and depth, I can pre-soak but not grow plugs. I'm looking for grain components to my mixed farm and I just don't have infrastructure to grow enough corn starts, nor really the energy/inclination. I noticed that Gaspe also seems to do poorly with transplanting, it was pretty stunted when I tried it compared to direct seeded plants. And stunted for Gaspe is saying something!

I also have very heavy soil that takes a long time to heat up deep down, to the point where a half-inch of difference in corn planting depth can be a week and a half difference in emergence. I've actually considered essentially ploughing contour trenches into my slope and planting on top of the berms between troughs (surely there's a name for this?) both to get going a little earlier and to allow for easy irrigation by flooding the troughs. There's not a lot of nutrient or water limitation here, so I suspect over time I'll end up with shallowly-rooted corns that can nonetheless hold themselves up without falling over.

I'm very curious now about planting depth recommendations vs soil types: the one Hopi farmer I know who plants 10" deep plants into basically hot sand and is seeking that cool moisture below for his seeds.  I bet if I planted that deeply I wouldn't get emergence till late June. As I gather my corn seeds for the 2022 trial I think I'll try and get planting depth information for each lot of seed I bring in, it'll be a fun piece of information to have.

Greenie DeS

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #25 on: 2021-12-03, 12:05:21 PM »
Looks like I've got my hands on Morden, which is "perhaps the earliest corn in the world" according to John Sherck, and also to an F2 of Gaspe x Morden (Morden as pollen parent, which is not the choice I would have made). Morden's apparently pretty genetically bottlenecked at this point but goodness does it seem like a fun ingredient in this chaos I'm making up here.

William S.

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #26 on: 2021-12-03, 12:09:12 PM »
I noticed that Snake River is getting theirs directly from Dave the breeder now and they do ship to Canada. So you can still get breeder seed for painted mountain corn!

When I came back in 2011 after five years of field work in California where I sadly had no garden I was worried my corn seed would not grow. So I bought a fresh packet. Mine grew fine. The seed descended from my 90s era painted mountain and the seed from Dave directly would only be a little different. The seed I've grown including this year of painted mountain descendent varieties like Papa's blue and Montana cudu perform very well too.

Some of the old three tribes of the upper MissourI varieties like Arikara white are a little slower than painted mountain. My older strain of painted mountain I was slowly working towards blue but papa's blue easily eclipsed that.

I think it would be hard to go wrong with paInted mountain strains or descendant corns. If it is too long season you can almost certainly cross it with something shorter season.
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William S.

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #27 on: 2021-12-03, 12:20:43 PM »
I have done a bad job growing corn in 2021. I planted one patch of a single variety of flour corn from Baker Creek from a Bozeman MT corn breeder. It seems fine. Already picked five ears.

Then I planted a flint corn grex field. It is very stunted. Might get a few ripe ears.

Same with the sweet corn.

Corn definitely needs to be planted and weeded a bit more carefully. Oh well. I might get some small amount of interesting genetics from it.

I did get a decent amount of seed back at the end from the flint grex including neandercorn, high carotene, loft house, and nuetta. I think some of the super old flint seed I planted may not have contributed.

I couldn't find my packet of gasped from sherck seeds. Maybe next year if I plant flint again two years in a row.

My sweet corn grex gave some fresh seed back.

Then I planted Montana Cudu corn for the flour corn and it behaved as normal painted mountain descended flour corns. I didn't seed it too thick like the others.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Greenie DeS

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #28 on: 2021-12-03, 02:48:03 PM »
I both have not found Altagold and have found something else interesting to try:

Arctic First (F7793) – Breeder: Morden Res. Sta., Morden, Manitoba, Canada. Vendor: T and T Seeds. Parentage: Altagold x Early White Flint. Characteristics: dwarf plants, 3.5′ tall, small ears, very early maturity. Resistance: tolerance to cold. Adaptation: northern Canada. 1958.

(not actually listed in T and T seeds' catalogue)

Steph S

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Re: 2021 Corn
« Reply #29 on: 2021-12-03, 02:55:01 PM »
Morden Manitoba has produced some amazing plant material over the years.  Vote of confidence here.
Huge shame about my friend's crop, she got nothing afaik not even seed, as rodents moved in the minute it hit the ground.  I hope she had seeds held back from last year, if so I could likely get you a handful from next year's crop.
This is the wierd wages from climate change.  Warmer year - yay!  Hurricane landfalls - doh. ::)