Author Topic: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes  (Read 2701 times)

nathanp

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #30 on: 2019-01-03, 03:32:01 PM »
For the sake of avoiding reiterating discussions, the following two threads on Tom Wagner's Tatermater forum are worth a read.  Assuming this is allowed.

http://tatermater.proboards.com/thread/790/late-blight-breeding-info

http://tatermater.proboards.com/thread/314/horizontal-vertical-resistance

nathanp

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #31 on: 2019-01-03, 03:51:17 PM »
One more thought regarding another article
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352215118300072

This is the first time I've seen a study that is looking at the complexity of the disease response in potatoes, as detailed in gene expression for the potato called Cooperation88 (C88).  There were more than 344 genes that were looked at and responded to the LB challenge.   Really interesting stuff in this one.

reed

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #32 on: 2019-01-10, 07:29:54 AM »
All the talk about breeding disease resistance in tomatoes is getting me interested in trying it myself.  I think I may have a bit of an advantage over some folks in that tomato diseases are so bad where I live that if I do luck into something that really is resistant it will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb. I got a bit of disadvantage though in that I don't really know what I'm doing but I watched a couple videos and the process of crossing seems pretty simple in theory so why not give it a try.

Someone posted that the F1 Iron Lady, is homozygous for a couple of the resistance genes and on this list from Cornell University https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/f/575/files/2015/12/Fact-sheet-2017-List-of-varieties-resistance-to-late-blight-25bprx7.pdf it is listed as resistant to bot early and late blight. This picture of it at High Mowing Seeds https://www.highmowingseeds.com/organic-non-gmo-iron-lady-f1-tomato-a.html isn't especially flattering in my opinion. Looks like a typical little plastic tomato to me.

The Cornell list of resistant varieties however also includes the heirloom Mr. Stripey which is one of our favorite tomatoes for fresh eating rather than canning and I have saved it's seeds for years so aside from blight resistance it is otherwise adapted to my garden.

So, seems I have little choice other than getting some Iron Lady seeds and maybe also some Skykomish and trying my hand at crossing. While I'm at it I might as well try crossing some of my other favorites to it as well.

Question???
In pictures Iron Lady and Skykomish both look very different from any of the tomatoes I might cross them with in size, color and other properties. Can I expect to see any apparent difference in the crossed fruits or will I have to wait till I grow out the seeds?





 
« Last Edit: 2019-01-10, 07:45:15 AM by reed »

William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #33 on: 2019-01-10, 10:45:52 AM »
You will have to grow the seed, the fruit will look normal except you might clip the sepals which may serve to remind you which tomato you worked on.

If you have any tomatoes more prone to crossing because of open flowers or exserted stigmas you could just plant those next to Skykomish and Iron lady in the hopes of natural crosses.

You have previously mentioned that your S. Pimpinillifolium crossed naturally without open flowers so you may just be subject to higher natural out crossing rates even with closed flowers. In my garden closed flowers don't seem to naturally cross so far even though I have decent bee diversity.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-10, 10:55:38 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

reed

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #34 on: 2019-01-10, 12:58:52 PM »
Ah' shucks, I was hoping the newly crossed fruits would come out with some observable differences, no problem though, I'll tag all the flowers I do the crossing on.

I don't know that natural crossing is actually common in my garden especially on closed flower types.  S. Pimpinillifolium grew wild here for twenty years till one time an S. Pimpinillifolium looking plant with fruits three times normal size showed up. It has since segregated into half dozen or more that vary in size, shape and color. They all taste about the same, very sweet, except for a pear shaped yellow one, which is pure awful.

They just keep coming back on their own along with the old normal ones. I'v been saving some seed last few years just in case I weed them all out one year but so far there have been plenty.  I may include them in my crossing attempts too but I'm not really looking for more little sweet tomatoes. On the other hand they are more disease tolerant than most, about the only ones now days that are still producing when fall frost hits.

Here is a picture of them from two or three years ago. The biggest ones are about the size of a ping pong ball.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-10, 01:06:16 PM by reed »

William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #35 on: 2019-01-10, 01:03:48 PM »
It's possible the pimps might have some existing resistance. Some of what I want to do is with ultra early pimp types. I would like to get the flavor of Coyote into something as early as sweet cherriette.
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William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #36 on: 2019-01-11, 03:31:24 PM »
I was just peeking back into the Tao of Gardening book section on Tomatoes for reference. It has a nice list of potentally resistant heirlooms which I noted include Stupice, Matt's Wild Cherry, and Yellow and red Pimpinillifolium strains.

Interesting.

Lots of pimpinillifolium genetics there. Makes me wonder about some of the ultra earlies I like because I think pimpinillifolium genetics is pretty common amongst them too.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 05:21:21 PM by William S. »
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William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #37 on: 2019-01-11, 05:58:57 PM »
Iron Lady F1 crosses that might make sense for me to do:

Iron Lady x Sweet Cherriette

Iron Lady x Coyote

Iron Lady x Big Hill

Iron Lady x Blue Ambrosia

Iron Lady x Amethyst Cream

Iron Lady x “Brad x Yellow Pear”

Iron Lady x Fairy Hollow

Iron Lady x “Nymph habrochaites hybrids”

Iron Lady x "Neandermato"

Iron Lady x “Penellii x domestic”

Iron Lady x Arcanum

Iron Lady x Chilense

It also occurs to me that a segregating population of Iron Lady hybrids with multiple parents would be a pretty good start to a modern land race or evolutionary plant breeding project- especially in a blight stricken area.

If someone got both Iron Lady and Skykomish a Iron Lady x Skykomish segregating population might be an interesting one to maintain and make selections from.
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Diane Whitehead

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #38 on: 2019-01-11, 06:39:37 PM »
I decided to see if any of the releases from the Dwarf Project have late blight resistance, so I read the descriptions of all of the ones Victory Seeds sells.  The only mention of disease resistance was for three of them:  Dwarf Kelly Green , Dwarf Sweet Sue, and Summer Sunrise.  Each was said to to be "quite disease tolerant", though no diseases are specified.

So I put a question about the dwarfs on to Tomatoville's General Discussion area.  A few people have read it, but no one has responded yet. 
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cool mediterranean climate  warm dry summers, mild wet winters,  70 cm rain,   sandy soil

William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #39 on: 2019-01-11, 06:45:54 PM »
I decided to see if any of the releases from the Dwarf Project have late blight resistance, so I read the descriptions of all of the ones Victory Seeds sells.  The only mention of disease resistance was for three of them:  Dwarf Kelly Green , Dwarf Sweet Sue, and Summer Sunrise.  Each was said to to be "quite disease tolerant", though no diseases are specified.

So I put a question about the dwarfs on to Tomatoville's General Discussion area.  A few people have read it, but no one has responded yet.

I can sign in to Tomatoville but can't post. I've kind of given up on fully joining it. I like to read the posts though.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #40 on: 2019-01-11, 06:57:55 PM »
I decided to check out Tatiana's descriptions, but she doesn't have a neat category for late blight resistance. (She does have the most amazing list of categories, though.  Like Haudenosaunee Tomatoes - now where are they from?)

I am going through her list of Tom Wagner varieties and have got to the B's.  Bing Cherry is supposed to be resistant.  I'll post the whole list when I finish.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 07:23:13 PM by Diane Whitehead »
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reed

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #41 on: 2019-01-11, 07:24:36 PM »
Dwarf tomato varieties I tried all died miserable deaths early in the season. The few fruits I got were not good but I suspect their true flavor may have been tainted by disease. Similar results with Stupice.

I'm thinking more about the pimp crosses being the only ones that still produce till frost when in years past all did. Also wondering why when I grew LB resistant strains many of them also croaked long before frost. And I'm wondering, why do I still get plenty of tomatoes early in season from several varieties?

It occurs to me that late blight is very far from being the only tomato disease here, maybe not even the worst of them. That made me think of Joseph's comment of maybe focusing specifically on a couple genes for late blight might not be the best idea. What good is late blight resistance if something else take them out early on.   

I have no idea exactly what fungus, bacteria or viruses are ruining my later tomatoes let alone what specific genes are needed to combat them. In the end I don't think it matters cause my only technique for dealing with it is observation and selection.

I have half dozen kinds that hold off the earlier diseases long enough to make a crop and I have the pimp crosses that make it all through the season. Iron Lady with it's homozygous LB resistance might be a good addition to my mix but I wonder. If it is only tolerant to late blight and nothing else would it even make it to production?

My breeding is going to use Mr. Stripey, a great, in my opinion, heirloom that is reported by Cornell University to be blight resistant, if it is or not I can't say for sure but it holds off all early obstacles long enough to make a nice crop for me. I'll also use the others that do the same.  And  my "produce till frost" pimp crosses. 

I have Mountain Merit and Plum Regal, neither of which is spectacular flavored and I have them both as F1 and later generations. They, I think, are just heterozygous against LB but they both have a long string of letters indicting other resistances behind their names and I'm starting to think that is at least equally important. I think I will go ahead and get some Iron Lady and maybe some Mountain Gem and also Bush early Girl.

Just cross the whole lot of it to Mr. Stripey and my other good tomatoes and see what shakes out later on. No clue if I can increase the size of the pimps or move their late in the season production into something bigger but if I'm going down the rabbit hole of tomato matchmaking guess I'll give it a try. 
 
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 07:31:00 PM by reed »

William S.

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #42 on: 2019-01-11, 07:44:11 PM »
I think that is part of the attraction with Iron Lady. It's not just for Late Blight. It's early blight, late blight, and septoria.

I bet some of those segregating heterozygous later generations are homozygous now.

I bet crossing Iron Lady to your don't die till frost pimp hybrid population would give you the best results for disease hardiness. I think your "Just cross the whole lot of it to Mr. Stripey and my other good tomatoes and see what shakes out later on. " plan sounds reasonable.

My main thought with this is I really like the status quo which is frost kills my tomatoes.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 07:51:09 PM by William S. »
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Diane Whitehead

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #43 on: 2019-01-11, 08:03:34 PM »

My main thought with this is I really like the status quo which is frost kills my tomatoes.
.Yes, frost is easier to plan for.

OK I have the list of resistant Tom Wagner tomatoes now - just five:
Bing Cherry, Blue Pitts, Grungy in the Sky and Grungy in the Sky Bicolor which are both seedlings from Skykomish and are being selected each year by Rob Wagner, and Skykomish.
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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nathanp

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Re: Blight Resistance in Potatoes and Tomatoes
« Reply #44 on: 2019-01-11, 08:28:08 PM »
Skykomish is the only one of the 'sky' series that is homozygous.  The others may have Ph2 and/or Ph3, but heterozygous.

I have some seed from Skykomish I could send to a few people.  PM me if you want some for breeding with. 

Just reposting this list of other LB resistant tomatoes.  There are a few others here that are homozygous for Ph2 and Ph3

I found the list:
Homozygous for Ph2 and Ph3
Iron Lady
Lizzano
Skykomish (from Tom Wagner)
Crimson Crush


Heterozygous for Ph2 and Ph3
Mountain Magic
Mountain Merit
Mountain Gem
Defiant
Jasper (probably has both - not confirmed, unsure if heterozygous or homozygous)

Homozygous for Ph3
Plum Regal

Homozygous for Ph2
Legend (OP)

Possibles/Probables
Matt's Wild Cherry - probably Ph3
JTO-545 - probably Ph2
Sun Gold   Some resistance anecdotally, but I am not sure what it is from.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-12, 06:35:52 AM by nathanp »