Author Topic: Tomato Journal  (Read 5976 times)

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #150 on: 2021-12-01, 05:43:47 PM »
What can give an hybrid between solanum habrochaite x pimpinelifolium?or  solanum habrochaite x (pimpinelifolium x lycopersycum)?

Not sure if I follow?

Many modern varieties already are. For instance Payette has introgression from habrochaites and Peruvianum so cross it with pimpinillifolium and you have four species in the background.

Chances are good that the whole promiscuous tomato project has a small amount of piminilifolium in its background from introgression and a lot of habrochaites and or pennellii from the recent breeding. If you wanted more pimpinillifolium you could simply cross it in.

Or you could simply cross lycopersicum x pimpinillifolium and then pollinate the F1 with habrochaites.
« Last Edit: 2021-12-01, 07:19:35 PM by William S. »
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Nicollas

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #151 on: 2021-12-02, 03:31:14 AM »
Signatures of wild relatives include Beta and perhaps tangerine too, as well as hairiness, antho... It would be nice to have a definitive list of traits that are markers for introgressed material.

I've run some filters to try to capture as much genes from wild species as possible from gene list maintained by TGRC. 201 genes sofar :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IW2Tx2hs6oH5jR6RUe2HNhhVuxjs-8F_/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104330110322218860013&rtpof=true&sd=true

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #152 on: 2021-12-03, 03:03:26 PM »
In my efforts to obtain more OSSI varieties I just received a seed trade for Cherokee Green and Honeydrop. Guess I'll add those two to my 2022 grow out list!
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #153 on: 2021-12-11, 12:52:07 PM »
On my winter grow out of MMS x BH F1 I now have about five shiny green tomatoes and a number more in the works.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #154 on: 2022-01-02, 12:38:47 AM »
Visited family. Pruned my plants back and left them to fend for themselves with the light on. Two ripening tomatoes on MMS x BH F1. Guessing the F2 is here but will need to let them ripen a little more before extracting. One plant seems to have antho fruit. The other not. Though not a trait I was necessarily expecting to see much of in the F1 where it usually shows up around half strength and with the artificial light, I wasn't sure it would develop at all. One plant may be toast I think the rest made it. Also, the cuttings I threw in water while pruning back are rooting.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-02, 02:35:48 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #155 on: 2022-01-02, 09:03:31 PM »
July 30th is when I planted. Germination on the 7th of August. Fruit set noted on the 11th of November 18 days ago.

Ripe fruit first of January.

So for a winter generation five months. About 150 days from seed to ripe fruit. I bet the embryo was viable a long time ago. I bet with better light and heat it would be a lot less. Seems like how long a long season tomato would take and this one should be a short season one.

Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #156 on: 2022-01-03, 08:24:06 PM »
I planted some Sweet Cherriette seed today. Probably not a great idea but I did it! 3rd of January in theory it should have ripe fruit on April 4th. I doubt that will happen because it is too cold in my basement and the lights, I have are not the best. I'm going to have to shuffle the big tomato plants further from the lights when it is time to plant the seedlings. Though that could be a great time to prune them way back and take cuttings.

Aztek microdwarf has some tight buds. MMS x BH has some even tighter buds. LA 1410 galapagense has no buds yet but the plant is bigger. I transplanted Aztek and the galapagense into one-gallon pots and put the cuttings into a one-gallon pot yesterday as well.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-03, 08:27:18 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #157 on: 2022-01-04, 07:32:02 PM »
Cut open and put my first two MMS x BH F1 fruits seeds in to ferment.

Flavor of both tomatoes was that of a tomato grown and harvested during too cold conditions. Eww! Doesn't impact the seeds though.

Of the two tomatoes the smaller one was less ripe but had good anthocyanin expression and is from a different F1 plant of the same cross and the antho parent is still segregating so clearly it is the plant / tomato to use for seed preferentially. So from that tomato I counted at least 57 seeds let's call it sixty and say we can expect 15 seedlings of potato leaf tomatoes. 15 seedlings could be adequate for the 2022 grow out. The other tomato produced at least 79 seeds though I would judge the odds of these segregating back to anthocyanin to be less!

Seven more shiny green fruits on the plants. Two of those on the high anthocyanin plant. If I do some more cloning that will be the plant. Six more dull fruits. The sickest plant from cold during my absence as I didn't want the small heater to dry the plants out is recovering.

I want three traits from this cross. Potato leaves, long exsertion, and antho skin. An additional maybe nice one could be a bit of a bump up in fruit size. I may not get everything I want initially. Priority is long exsertion on a potato leaf plant.  If I get multiple plants like that from this cross some of them will very likely be pressed into service as cross mothers in 2022 just as some of the MMS were in 2021.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-04, 10:19:49 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #158 on: 2022-01-05, 06:21:17 AM »
One "Galapagos Wild Tomato Minor Type 2" and two "Pea Pimp" have germinated.

I combined the "Wild Currant From Peru" and "Alberto Shatters" seeds into one container. Both were very similar to each other in terms of blight resistance, fruit / seed / leaf size.


My "Off Peruvianum" has some flower buds. I have to move it's grow light up almost daily, it keeps stretching and touching the light along with more leaves and growth. The domestic types in the same tray are half it's size.

The other Peruvianums aren't even a half of it's size.

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #159 on: 2022-01-07, 05:26:47 PM »
Took my seeds out of fermentation and laid them out to dry. The tomato with anthocyanin expression actually had 79 seeds. So I could hope for about 20 potato leaf plants with a high likelihood of anthocyanin expression. The one without anthocyanin expression has 125 seeds so maybe 30+ seedlings from that will have potato leaf. Though those could still be useful for crossing with Exserted tiger.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #160 on: 2022-01-12, 05:49:12 PM »
Tomato seed trades came today, and so I have about a dozen more varieties of tomato to plant this coming spring. My dwarf project dwarf tomato count is now up to eleven varieties. Also got another microdwarf orange top hat. Also I think I found two more older Russian dwarves in my seed collection from 2017. I may have to grow out all the dwarves in 2022!

Two tomatoes are ripening in the basement, MMS x BH but both of them on plants not showing anthocyanin. More blooming still seems a way off.
« Last Edit: 2022-01-12, 05:57:45 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #161 on: 2022-01-13, 09:25:02 PM »
One "Galapagos Wild Tomato Minor Type 2" and two "Pea Pimp" have germinated.

I combined the "Wild Currant From Peru" and "Alberto Shatters" seeds into one container. Both were very similar to each other in terms of blight resistance, fruit / seed / leaf size.


My "Off Peruvianum" has some flower buds. I have to move it's grow light up almost daily, it keeps stretching and touching the light along with more leaves and growth. The domestic types in the same tray are half it's size.

The other Peruvianums aren't even a half of it's size.

Things that have germinated so far in the second group:

Wild Currant From Peru" and "Alberto Shatters (S. pimpinellifolium)

Galapagos Island Tomato Type 3 (S. cheesmaniae)

Galapagos Wild Tomato Minor Type 2 - Non-hairy (S. galapagense)

Chmielewsky's Wild Tomato (S. chmielewskii)

Island Sunrise (S. lycopersicum-pimpinellifolium  x cheesmaniae)

Livingston's Honor Bright / Lutescent (S. lycopersicum)


I hope that these all do well for me.

The S. pimpinellifolium, S. cheesmaniae and S. galapagense all appear to be "true" wild types. Meaning, pea sized fruits - some of them have seeds smaller than those found in the Peruvianum population - perhaps good material for a smaller seed size.

William S.

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #162 on: 2022-01-14, 06:18:24 PM »
Four of my MMS x BH F1 tomatoes are now ripening downstairs. Only one of them from the high anthocyanin plant though. Also, one Sweet Cherriette seed has germinated. Flower buds are still pretty tight, but the Aztek micro dwarf has some as does the MMS x BH F1. Still no sign of buds on the LA1410 Solanum galapagense plant it is the smallest and the youngest of the older plants.

I wonder if I should prune the four non-anthocyanin MMS x BH F1 plants way back or maybe even just compost them after I pick the last of the bigger shiny tomatoes. One alternative other thing I could do with them which might be kind of cool, is emasculate all their flowers and pollinate them with the one high anthocyanin plant.

« Last Edit: 2022-01-14, 07:52:58 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Steph S

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #163 on: 2022-01-16, 11:03:40 AM »
I've run some filters to try to capture as much genes from wild species as possible from gene list maintained by TGRC. 201 genes sofar :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IW2Tx2hs6oH5jR6RUe2HNhhVuxjs-8F_/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104330110322218860013&rtpof=true&sd=true

Nice work, Nicollas!

I'm shocked at the number of dwarfing growth habit genes from wild relatives.  Dwarf breeding is pretty tangly and I can see why!

In orange fruit color I see Beta, Delta, and "aurantiaca" aur , are on the list but I don't see t tangerine?  Just wondering if it is typical of a wild relative or is a mutation in tomatoes.

Nicollas

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Re: Tomato Journal
« Reply #164 on: 2022-01-16, 12:12:18 PM »
Seems originating from mutations (spontanues or by radiation) :
https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/GenRepeater.aspx?Gene=t
« Last Edit: 2022-01-16, 12:15:22 PM by Nicollas »