Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project

[William S.]

So I have one plant of The One, Fuyu Persimmon flavored that is much bigger and older because of a desire to use it in early crosses. It does have some tight buds formed yay.

The thing is it is looking quite a bit dwarf-ish. The mother was small, and we've talked sometime in the past about some possibilities about dwarfs arising from interspecies crosses. That may in fact be where Payette got its dwarf character from. Joseph has described some of his selections from the project as dwarf.

Comparison to a Dwarf Gloria's treat in photo below plants are similar in age. The genes may not be quite the same, but it does seem to have a lot of what a true rugose dwarf has. I.E., it may be a true rugose dwarf or something very close to it.

[Andrew Barney]

Is there any possibility of getting a rooted cutting of "the one" shipped?

Do you think the flavor is stabilized? Will seedlings this year change in flavor?

[Andrew Barney]

Also, William,

What about a little pumpkin x persimmon cross?

P.s. I think there is a large orange beefsteak heirloom named persimmon already. So there is potential confusion there.

[William S.]

Is there any possibility of getting a rooted cutting of "the one" shipped?

Do you think the flavor is stabilized? Will seedlings this year change in flavor?

Nothing to cut off yet! I wish I had dug up the original and brought it inside.

I hope to find out the answer to the flavor stabilization questions this year. My guess based on the flower structure of the mother is that selfing will be only part of the offspring. So I expect better average flavor but would be suprised if they all taste good.

I am also curious about the range of growth forms. Some of the seedlings seem really slow growing. Others faster to pretty normal but the oldest is definitely growing fairly slow and sturdily.

Little pumpkins had a similar flavor. Will see what it does this year. A cross would probably be a little boring but I am most interested in the first question for now. Stability?! Little pumpkins produced far less seed and had inserted stigmas. I don't know for sure if that has any advantage for stability. I thought I might keep them in the same block but I've also thought about putting the Little Pumpkins in with a wider diversity.

I wouldn't be suprised if it takes awhile given that we have deliberately bred for outcrossing. So more like breeding corn and less like breeding inbreeding tomatoes. Selection still works though. I think pulling three good ones out of hundreds this year I would be very pleased if 60% of these are good. If ten of them are that is still progress. Planting them in more places may help to understand the variation as well. My soils are a bit variable.

I would like to grow the "Persimmon" named tomato some time. Don't think it would do well here with the short growing season but I might get one good tomato. I am not actually calling mine exactly the same name- I don't actually think it is ready to be named or distributed to the general public. The tag description in sloppy handwriting is actually "The One, Fuyu Persimmon, Exserted, Open".

One of my questions this year is if I have really tasted very many really good tomato varieties. I'm curious to know what some of the dwarfs and Craig's top ten list tomatoes taste like. I am also growing a clump of F1 Sungold because it is one I have tasted and is sort of a similar fruity flavored tomato.

[Andrew Barney]

Yeah, I just figured I'd mention the officially named persimmon variety just in case. I've never grown it, but I doubt it actually tastes as much as a persimmon as your and joseph's lines do.

I'm actually really excited about all the various flavors popping out of this project. I knew Solanum pennellii had the most scent chemical compounds out of the wild tomato species, so it is cool to see the recombination and segregation with domestic tomato genetics. Some of the other wild species have some diversity as well, but I remember one study had said S. pennellii had the most and most unique chemicals too. Really cool stuff.

Considering tomatoes are botanically a fruit it is cool to see new types that have more fruity flavor. I really do think this project could change domestic tomato evolution drastically. Who knows if they will even have old style tomatoes in 200 years or if they will only be growing tropical flavored ones. haha.

My favorite domestic tomato is one I don't have a name for. I got it last year from the Sprouts farmers market store and was being marketed by the Rocket Farms in California.

https://rocketfarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/133-orange-tomato-in-sleeve.png

I think it is different than Sungold, but not sure what it is. It seems to be potato leaved and seems to be an extra thick stemmed dwarf variety. Nice dark tasty orange cherry tomatoes. For a domestic tomato I really like it. Just wish I knew the name.