Author Topic: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project  (Read 3316 times)

Garrett Schantz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 499
  • Karma: 20
    • View Profile
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #60 on: 2021-09-14, 08:57:33 PM »
Most of my Wildlings died - this plant had an interesting fruit.

The striping on one side is interesting. The biggest downside with this fruit was collecting the seeds.

The seed cavities were encased with flesh on the outside, pockets here and there. Had to use a knife and find them all - this fruit was underripe, so I wanted as many seeds as possible.

Skin was quite thick on this fruit. Lot of flesh as well, hardly any gel.

Hopefully these germinate well next year. I want to see if the odd striping reappears.

William S.

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Karma: 60
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #61 on: 2021-09-14, 09:39:31 PM »
I'd say that striping is fairly common in the project at large. It is fun.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 499
  • Karma: 20
    • View Profile
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #62 on: 2021-09-14, 09:47:19 PM »
I'd say that striping is fairly common in the project at large. It is fun.

Yeah, I have been seeing a lot of weird traits. Some of them are pretty cool looking. Lot of fun stuff.

Only half of the fruit had striping, that half also didn't show any green shoulders like the normal half.

Some of my Wild Crosses will be in their F3 stage next growing season. Should be fun.

William S.

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Karma: 60
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #63 on: 2021-09-16, 06:57:47 AM »
How much inbreeding do we collectively reckon the project can handle?

If my 2021 tasty elite gave me 100 viable seeds. Assuming it is indeed promiscuous and I isolate those 100 resulting plants in one of my six isolation gardens. Will I have massive 2022 reproductive problems with a sibling garden?

Never seems to be an issue for tomatillos.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Joseph Lofthouse

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 53
  • Great Basin desert, Rocky Mountains
    • Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder. World Tomato Society, ambassador. Plant Breeder. Yogi. Shaman.
    • View Profile
    • Garden.Lofthouse.com
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dsa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA Zone 5
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #64 on: 2021-09-16, 09:04:54 PM »
How much inbreeding do we collectively reckon the project can handle?

If my 2021 tasty elite gave me 100 viable seeds. Assuming it is indeed promiscuous and I isolate those 100 resulting plants in one of my six isolation gardens. Will I have massive 2022 reproductive problems with a sibling garden?

Never seems to be an issue for tomatillos.

There are about 35 wild s-alleles.  I'm assuming that we have at least 5 in the promiscuous project. 1 from the domestic ancestors, and 2 each from habrochaites and pennellii. Potentially many more, because the first few years, I grew S habrochaites adjacent to the promiscuous lines. It slowed down the selection for elite lines, but helped with diversity.

It only takes 3 s-alleles to maintain a viable population. Whichever s alleles are rarest have the highest reproductive advantage.

The only time I have heard of tomatillos failing to set fruit was when only one plant was grown.
« Last Edit: 2021-09-16, 09:34:02 PM by Joseph Lofthouse »

Joseph Lofthouse

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 53
  • Great Basin desert, Rocky Mountains
    • Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder. World Tomato Society, ambassador. Plant Breeder. Yogi. Shaman.
    • View Profile
    • Garden.Lofthouse.com
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dsa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA Zone 5
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #65 on: 2021-09-16, 09:29:41 PM »
Reporting on the greenhouse grown tomatoes.

Today, I collected fruits from attempted manual pollinations using huge self-incompatible flowers to pollinate Sun Sugar and Solanum pimpinellifolium. Here's what the flowers of the pollen donors looked like.

Attempted manual pollinations on galapagense and cheesmanae didn't set fruits. They mostly didn't set fruits from selfing either. I didn't buzz or shake the flowers.  Solanum pimpinellifolium in the greenhouse set lots of selfed fruits.

Fruits are just starting to ripen for pollinations using the huge flowers as pollen donors to each other.

The tomatoes really thrived in the greenhouse. No pollinators though, so the only fruits that set on the self-incompatible lines were from the manual pollinations that I attempted.

The plants grew huge and etiolated in the greenhouse compared to outside in the open field.

William S.

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Karma: 60
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #66 on: 2021-09-16, 09:43:46 PM »
I think I managed to pick two more tomatoes off the really tasty plant tonight. Left two on it. They may yet ripen if they don't get frosted. Should up my seed count a little. Wish I had watered the plant a bit more a few months ago, it would be much bigger.

Also grabbed some more R18, the last batch was the best yet. So I may yet get plenty of seed for it. It has the best flowers and there are six plants and the fruits vary a bit. Some are russetted. Though the flowers are similar. Like the ones Joseph just shared photos of. Huge flowers.
« Last Edit: 2021-09-16, 09:47:09 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Joseph Lofthouse

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 404
  • Karma: 53
  • Great Basin desert, Rocky Mountains
    • Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder. World Tomato Society, ambassador. Plant Breeder. Yogi. Shaman.
    • View Profile
    • Garden.Lofthouse.com
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dsa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA Zone 5
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #67 on: 2021-09-16, 10:45:12 PM »
Also grabbed some more R18, the last batch was the best yet. So I may yet get plenty of seed for it. It has the best flowers and there are six plants and the fruits vary a bit. Some are russetted. Though the flowers are similar. Like the ones Joseph just shared photos of. Huge flowers.

The bottom flower in my recent post is the original R-18: Cloned in the fall of 2020. I successfully cloned it again this fall. Perhaps it will survive another winter.

William S.

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Karma: 60
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #68 on: 2021-09-17, 05:20:22 PM »
The bottom flower in my recent post is the original R-18: Cloned in the fall of 2020. I successfully cloned it again this fall. Perhaps it will survive another winter.

That's good, it makes nice babies.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Nicollas

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: 15
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #69 on: 2021-12-20, 10:33:58 AM »
Here are some accessions that could be interesting for those who are able to request from TGRC :

  * LA0812 (L. esculentum) - The only SI esculentum of the collection (if it is not a mistake, it is from a cross with LA0716 which is Facultative-SC ...)
  * LA3243 (L. esculentum) - exserted stigmas and fasciated flowers
  * LA4078 (L. esculentum) - naturally outcrossing
  * LA4040  (L. esculentum) - exserted stigmas
  * LA4039 (L. esculentum) - exserted stigmas
  * LA3859  (L. pimpinellifolium) - large flowers + exserted stigmas
  * LA1381  (L. pimpinellifolium) - large flowers + exserted stigmas
  * LA4673  (L. pimpinellifolium) - very large flowers + exserted stigmas
  * LA2556  (L. hirsutum.) - large flowers + exserted stigmas + LB resistance

William S.

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Karma: 60
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #70 on: 2021-12-20, 12:43:26 PM »
My internet seems to be too slow at the moment to click on any of those. I don't have any of them in my collection. I checked my handy new inventory. I've been able to request accessions from TGRC through my company in recent years, though I am currently in the process of shutting one company down and starting another. Each accession I request though is sort of like a commitment to do years of work. So, I think it is important to really understand why I want an accession before requesting it. What does it add to a project or if it launches a new project how is that valuable to me and to our community of tomato breeders?

That said Andrew had an interesting idea of growing out some of the more interesting accessions and offering them through EFN or similar. Though that is also a lot of work!
« Last Edit: 2021-12-20, 01:24:51 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Nicollas

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: 15
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #71 on: 2021-12-20, 02:01:56 PM »
TGRC seems to have access problems right now

Nicollas

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: 15
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Beautifully Promiscuous and Tasty Tomato Project
« Reply #72 on: 2021-12-21, 09:24:59 AM »
That said Andrew had an interesting idea of growing out some of the more interesting accessions and offering them through EFN or similar. Though that is also a lot of work!

YES PLEASE ! It's much more pricey and difficult to get seeds from TGRC out of the US for example