Author Topic: Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes  (Read 77 times)

William S.

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Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« on: 2021-03-28, 10:21:56 PM »
Ok, so I have lots of new tomato seedlings. Some have anthocyanin stem expression. Some do not. Edit: I am going to modify this to rank them 0 to 4 with 4 being qualitatively different.

Yellow Tasty Indigo Kumquat F4 has a particularly lovely violet that is qualitatively different. 4

Big Hill has some 2
Exserted Tiger has more 3
Coyote has 2
Amethyst cream has 2
Bosque Bronze has 2
Hab cytoplasm a little maybe 1
Pimp x Tressette variable 1 to 2
Blue Tressette chile shaped variable 0-2
S35,36,37 variable but rare 0-2
R18 no 0-1
Mission Mountain Sunrise yes variable 1-3
Exserted orange is variable 0-3
Promiscuous bicolor is variable 0-2
Dwarf Hirsutum X is a no 0
Wild Child no 0
Brad no 0
Iron Lady no 0
Earliest XL is variable but lighter 0-1
Ugly cracking f2? Is yes but light 1
Yellow round Chariot F5 is variable 0-1
Earl's Jagodka light yes 1
Ot' Jagodka light yes 1
42 Days no 0
Forest Fire no 0
Terrior Galapagense no 0-1
Great big blue red F3 yes 1
Sweet cherriette light yes 1
Blue Gold yes- maybe with the same extra as the indigo kumquat 3-4
Lucid Gem yes 3-4
Blue Ambrosia yes 1-2
Kinda like dark Galaxy F3 yes 2
And variable in LA2329 but mucheck higher percentage in the 2020 grown seed which stands to reason as anthocyanin fruits is known from the accession and one of the two good mothers had them. 0-2

With the potential Payette X grown from contaminate off type 2020 seedling I notice some variation but pretty light. 0-1 (2?4?) Still too young to compare. I thought I detected potential half strength single copy anthocyanin expression in the mother's fruit. I remember reading something someone wrote perhaps on homegrown goodness that antho tomatoes can be picked out very young via stem expression. So my thought was to pick out the antho dwarfs. Not so sure if the antho expression is extra weak. I may have guessed wrong on the half strength antho. Got it right on the blue gold Tressette F1 in 2019 though.

Also intriguing some non-antho varieties like Big Hill seem to express fairly strong stem anthocyanin. Given that this is plant sunscreen it makes sense for it to be wider spread. Wonder though if they are more likely to express fruit antho if combined with the "Aft" gene.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-29, 09:06:41 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Andrew Barney

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Re: Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« Reply #1 on: 2021-03-29, 08:21:21 AM »
That is a surprising list. Since anthocyanin expression in stems was recovered from S. cheesmaniae i'm a bit surprised to see it in so many lines (especially since it is recessive). Though, perhaps there are other sources for the "atv" gene other than in S. cheesmaniae, though i would still expect them to be recessive.

The "Aft" gene certainly is cool. LA1996 is still one of my favorite tomatoes even as a pre-bred. It's a keeper for my garden even if a bit ugly. When the Aft gene is combined with the atv phenotype i think both increase the amount of anthocyanin in the whole plant. I know fruit expression certainly goes up in Aft lines that also have the atv phenotype. There may be other modifier genes or jumping genes at play as well.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200929174346/https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/AccDetail.aspx?AccessionNum=LA1996


William S.

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Re: Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« Reply #2 on: 2021-03-29, 08:40:33 AM »
Yeah, I am curious. I think actually I could probably rank this as 0 to 4 in individual sprouts. 0 being perfectly green. 1 being slight expression (maybe one copy of a gene?), 2 being fairly dark, 3 being darkest, and 4 being qualitatively different aka the lovely violet of Indigo Kumquat F4. (I went back and did this in original post as an edit).
Some scored in interesting ways I.E. my two strains of Jagodka scored 1. That could not be a single copy of a gene but rather perhaps a different inbred allele?  Blue Ambrosia a known blue line has 1-2 and a couple of my other breeding lines of blues scored a bit lower.
 I would also note that not all blues are qualitatively the same. These differences could be explanatory.

I suspect this is more than just "atv" lots of these should have "atv" some should not like Big Hill and Coyote. If so different "atv-like" genes could help explain why some blue tomatoes are very blue like my own "Mission Mountain Sunrise" and some are kind of muddy blue like my "exserted tiger"

See also this interesting article for a detailed breakdown of additional "aft" type genes.

 http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com/2014/10/making-new-blue-tomato.html?m=

Experimentally there is a lot of blue tomato variation to play with here. Can I turn coyote or big hill blue easier than Terrior galapagense by crossing with blue fruit skin lines? If I pollinate a Mission Mountain Sunrise with the blue portion of LA2329 would the habrochaites "aft-like" and "atv-like" genes result in anything different?

Wish I had a seedling of LA1996 handy, maybe I should plant one. It expresses aft pretty well as a muddy fruit blue.

If purple smudge gets its blue from peruvianum I am curious about it a little as well.

Can't recall for sure which but either the cheesemanii or the Galapagense Andrew sent me had fruit skin expression of blue. I am growing then again if the galapagense will hurry up and sprout. Hmm LA1404 cheesemanii is a 0-1 on my scale for stem expression.

Also I should mention that distance from the light source does seem to matter some.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-29, 10:02:52 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Andrew Barney

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Re: Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« Reply #3 on: 2021-03-29, 11:18:20 AM »
Can't recall for sure which but either the cheesemanii or the Galapagense Andrew sent me had fruit skin expression of blue. I am growing then again if the galapagense will hurry up and sprout. Hmm LA1404 cheesemanii is a 0-1 on my scale for stem expression.

Also I should mention that distance from the light source does seem to matter some.

It's possible that light distance will matter as anthocyan expression is dependent on intensity of UV light and cold temperatures. One year i got a FULLY purple corn plant with no green. But that plant was watered with cold water every morning that summer. It was a sight to behold though. One copy of a gene could also be at play. I've seen this in the co-dominant genes in purple podded peas for example. But yeah, other modifier genes or other unknown alleles is certainly possible.

makes me wonder if one could use a sensor like this to turn qualitative data into quantitative data? Maybe i should try to design one that has both a color sensor and a proximity sensor so readings could be at the same exact distance for each reading.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12829
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/11195
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1334?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9YWDBhDyARIsADt6sGYxFjiv7F0UvycJgHeH1Ugr9MBQgymSvliz0yQEtD220fLCq-4Z5QUaAlKZEALw_wcB
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4698

This one is not a color sensor, but has the proximity sensor i mentioned.
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4161



When it comes to the original S. cheesmaniae and S. galapagense accessions i requested, I did try to request the ones that mentioned any form of purple fruit or stems. It may be variable within S. cheesmaniae and galapagense. One accession was supposed to have a red fruit but was still S. cheesmaniae or galapagense and i wondered if it was a natural cross with a pimpinellifolium. But i never got that accession to grow to maturity.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Anthocyanin stem expression in tomatoes
« Reply #4 on: 2021-03-29, 12:30:43 PM »
My Habrochites x Pimpinellifolium F1 had quite a bit of anthocyanin in the stems. Most of the habrochites parents I grew last year had it too. F2 will probably vary.

I am growing Purple Smudge - I bought some galapagense - cheesmaniae, so far no germination on those. I didn't treat the seeds.

I can probably use one of the habrochites as a parent in some crosses - should be easy to find anthocyanin - exerted plants in the F2.

Anthocyanin seems to require light to hit the fruit / stems for it to show up.


Not sure if I posted this image on here before, would have to go back and check. But yeah lot of anthocyanin showed up in the habro-pimp F1.