Author Topic: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes  (Read 265 times)

atilgan

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I will test tomatoes for resistance to low nighttime temperatures. I will have two groups one planted mid April and another group that will be planted at the beginning of May. May 15 is the last frost date but low nighttime temperatures do not allow much growth until June. I will try to protect against frost but those planted in April will probably be dead by frosts anyway. Legend and Siletz are advertised as cold tolerant. I have a local variety that seems to like cold.
I will check for vigor and fruit set. Do you recommend another varieties that should be included? 
« Last Edit: 2021-02-12, 01:11:17 PM by atilgan »

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #1 on: 2021-02-12, 01:48:23 PM »
Jagodka easily won my cold tolerant trails. It wasn't frost resistant, but it grew wonderfully in cool spring weather. Seed can be obtained http://efnseeds.com

Jagodka is the pile with the most fruits in each photo.

William S.

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #2 on: 2021-02-12, 07:17:54 PM »
I will test tomatoes for resistance to low nighttime temperatures. I will have two groups one planted mid April and another group that will be planted at the beginning of May. May 15 is the last frost date but low nighttime temperatures do not allow much growth until June. I will try to protect against frost but those planted in April will probably be dead by frosts anyway. Legend and Siletz are advertised as cold tolerant. I have a local variety that seems to like cold.
I will check for vigor and fruit set. Do you recommend another varieties that should be included?

My average date of last frost is also May 15th. In 2017 when I grew 70 kinds Siletz did very well for me direct seeded. All the transplants that year froze to the ground and resprouted.

These were also interesting simply for shortness of season.

Sweet Cherriette
Jagodka
Brad
42 Days
Forest Fire
Coyote
Ditmarsher
Anmore Dewdrop
Tumbler hybrid
Krainy Sever
Sungold hybrid and segregating offspring

I have two strains of Jagodka and I think they are different.

For flavor try the following:

Sungold hybrid
Coyote
Terior underwood gardens galapagos
Big Hill (on EFN)
Exserted Orange (on EFN)

I bred Exserted Tiger under similar conditions with direct seeding but it is mostly for adding stripes and blue till I get a yellow version with the exsertion. Though that might just segregate out and not require a back cross.

Almost all of the above were tortured by me and were top picks from 2017 or subsequent years.

Last year I direct seeded some of the 2019 grown 3/4 domestic BH x Wild4 they all proved wild type and thus not of interest compared to the 2019 Joseph selections from the same crosses but they did prove to me that the promiscuous project is ready for tests like this one you propose. This year I hope to do the same direct seeding experiment I normally do but with some of the abundant seed I grew of the tasty promiscuous lines in 2020. These are available on EFN and may contain some intriguing genetics from the wild admixture for your test.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Andrew Barney

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #3 on: 2021-02-12, 08:54:32 PM »
Cool project. Is anyone breeding with these cold and frost tolerant lines like jogodka and siletz?

Joseph,  did you and Dar Jones ever make any progress with that project? Weren't some habrochiates lines used because of supposed frost tolerance genetics?

Here is the original thread:
https://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/6988/tolerant-tomatoes-right-josephs-alley

William S.

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #4 on: 2021-02-12, 09:59:37 PM »
Cool project. Is anyone breeding with these cold and frost tolerant lines like jogodka and siletz?

Joseph,  did you and Dar Jones ever make any progress with that project? Weren't some habrochiates lines used because of supposed frost tolerance genetics?

Here is the original thread:
https://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/6988/tolerant-tomatoes-right-josephs-alley

Big Hill is 1/2 Jagodka. The main line of the promiscuous project is Big Hill x Wild4. Also I think Brad is part of Wild4 the wild part was LA1777 which has extreme potential. So the main line of the promiscuous project is descended from some of the important tomatoes of the cold project. Its also got plenty of short season potential given that ancestry.

Joseph has said in the past he may go back to cold tolerance selection after the promiscuous project is satisfying for promiscuity.

Siletz and all that parthenocarpic stuff is ok, but hard to work with the low seed set.

Wild Mountain Seed does some work with cold as Joseph used to.

Also J and L gardens still had a good selection of cold tolerant lines last I checked which was awhile back. I think they work with it too.

I suspect Darrel Jones is still working on his projects. He has said he likes to release really finished work.

Tom Wagner talks about his cold tolerant work a little sometimes. He has some lines with good fruit survival of frost.

The 2020 Joseph selected tomatoes from the promiscuous project the actual fruit looked great after frost and I got another harvest or two. Maybe that's similar to what Tom is talking about.

I planted a few of the wild type BH x W4 ultra early last year and lost some to frost. Did not.follow through with it or save seed as it was all wild type but there seemed to be some survival as I found in 2017 with just about anything.

EFN has Brad, Big Hill, Brad F2, Exserted orange, Chariot, Jagodka, BH Series, Q Series, wildling panamorous, and neandermato. I think that would be a nice gene pool to start with.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-12, 10:15:25 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #5 on: 2021-02-12, 10:39:51 PM »
Jagodka was the clear winner in my cold tolerant trials.
It became ancestor to Big Hill. Therefore the panamourous/polyamorous lines that I sent to EFN this year are 25% Jagodka. (I haven't done the math on exserted orange, but around that.)

Another tomato that is tied with Jagodka for earliness (cold tolerance) is one that I call Brad. It was also an ancestor to the promiscuous project. It might only represent 1/64th of the current generation. Other ancestors from that time were Silvery Fir Tree, which is my earliest slicer. Black Prince, because pollen was available. And a early NOID fro my landrace.

The habrochaite ancestors included plants that survived two months after frosts had killed the rest of the tomatoes. And it included LA1777 which originates at 12,000 feet elevation.

Nicollas

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #6 on: 2021-02-12, 11:04:33 PM »
Legend and Siletz are advertised as cold tolerant.

Beware that there are several traits that can be seen as "cold tolerance"

1. small DTM
2. germination at low temps
3. growth at low temps
4. fruit set at low temps

I guess Legend and Siletz, being parthenocarpic, are good for criteria #4, but maybe not for the others.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-12, 11:09:08 PM by Nicollas »

Nicollas

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #7 on: 2021-02-12, 11:22:58 PM »
Quote
USEFULGERMPLASMSFORCOLDTOLERANCEBREEDING. The coldtolerant accessions identified in this study can be classified into threegroups.  First,  those  that  exhibited  CT  during  seed  germination,including  L.  pimpinellifolium  LA722  and  LA1579,  L.  hirsutumPI127826,  LA1777,  and  LA1393,  and  L.  esculentum  PI370080,PI201773, PI174263, and PI120256. These accessions should beuseful resources for breeding tomatoes for direct seeding. Second,those  that  exhibited  CT  during  vegetative  growth,  including  L.hirsutum  PI127826,  LA1777,  and  LA386,  and  L.  esculentumPI174263 and PI120256. Cold tolerance during vegetative growthis particularly important for crop establishment during early seasonin temperate regions. Third, those that exhibited CT during bothseed  germination  and  vegetative  growth,  including  L.  hirsutumPI127826 and LA1777, and L. esculentum PI174263 and PI120256.However, for practical breeding purposes, it may be desirable toidentify  accessions  that  exhibit  CT  during  all  stages  of  plantdevelopment, including reproduction (e.g., flowering, fruit set andripening under low temperatures). Cold tolerance during reproduc-tion is of interest, particularly for greenhouse production in northernregions  and  field  growing  conditions  in  the  far  north.  Furtherinvestigations  are  needed  to  determine  CT  of  these  accessionsduring reproduction and to examine the relationship between toler-ance during reproduction and earlier stages.

FRom Relationship between Cold Tolerance during SeedGermination and Vegetative Growth in Tomato:Germplasm Evaluation

The domestic tomatoes indentified as cold tolerant are from Turkey
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1132021
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail?id=1151248

Andrew Barney

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #8 on: 2021-02-13, 12:32:35 AM »
Thanks all, this is some good information. I do not currently have most of those in my collection so I will either need to do an EFN order at some point or rely on getting samples from others. However I think for myself I want to dedicate my efforts on growing out the peruvianum hybrids if possible like I did with that original pennelli line. It seems the pennellii changed the wild project greatly. Peruvianum crosses could change it again.

My understanding is that Tom Wagner seeds are no longer available to the public and his website is closed. I would assume this means there is no garantee anything new will come from him unless it shows up in some random seed company.

Sorry for the side chatter. Back to the original topic.

Great points Nicollas, there are indeed several traits that can be seen as "cold tolerance"

1. small DTM
2. germination at low temps
3. growth at low temps
4. fruit set at low temps

I think #2, and #3 should be high on the evaluation list if cold or frost tolerance is what one is after. I think #4 will naturally follow if #3 is a trait present.

Edit: usually crops with anthocyanins have higher cold tolerance. Has anyone noticed if any of the antho tomatoes show this trend? Has anyone even evaluated any of the blue tomato lines for cold tolerance? If not,  please evaluate all anthocyanin or blue tomato lines. The best flavored line I have I have is LA1996 that i have just been calling "AFT". It is a pre-bred line that was later used to breed the blue tomatoes.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-13, 12:46:37 AM by Andrew Barney »

William S.

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #9 on: 2021-02-13, 07:30:38 AM »
Andrew, the 2017 grow out, one plant of Blue Gold miraculously survived a frost that froze almost everything else down to the ground including other plants of the same variety. If genetic and not fine scale thermal fluctuation that was probably epigenetic.

It also occurs to me, that plant might have been the pollen parent that started my own blue bicolor line crossed with a NOID Lofthouse Landrace red potato leaf I direct seeded. That line is notably short season. Though I think from the tomato 2020 growout I'm going with the plant with the best blue, not the one that ripened fruit first. I have a contract for it in 2021 and thus intend to name it and pledge it this year. I think the color should be relatively stable. I think I'll call it Mission Mountain Sunrise for my valley in Montana.

Antho lines tend to be sunburn resistant but have longer DTM.

Exserted Tiger is also antho, though a muddier antho. One hope is to cross these lines and others in the future. Though that can be as simple as planting seedlings close together or mixing it into a direct seeding mix with the short season and exserted lines I've accumulated.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #10 on: 2021-02-13, 07:41:42 AM »
Antho lines tend to be sunburn resistant but have longer DTM.

Yes, this i have noticed. Must have something to do with the anthocyanin-chlorophyll interactions, though i don't know if i have ever seen a blue tomato with the green-shoulders gene (that is usually linked with better flavor in tomatoes). I wonder if that combination could help improve the DTM length and flavor.

atilgan

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #11 on: 2021-02-13, 09:21:34 AM »
I purchased Jagodka and Brad to include in the test. As for the anthos I will have black beauty. I will try to grow Joseph's wildling panamorous tomatoes in our community garden where for the last two years no tomato survived because of a disease that looks like TSWV. There are probably other diseases present. I have purchased several highly disease resistant tomato varieties like galahad and big beef to try in the community garden as well. I should mention that cold resistance test will not take place in the community garden.

Steph S

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Re: Test to check low nighttime temperature resistance in tomatoes
« Reply #12 on: 2021-02-13, 12:42:31 PM »
I will add a couple of points to Nicollas list which are important for my climate:
1. short DTM
2. germination at low temps
3. growth at low temps
4. fruit set at low temps
5. fruit growth at low temps
6. production of marketable fruit at low temps

 Between points 4 and 5:  There are many more varieties that will set fruit at low temps than varieties that will grow those fruit beyond a tiny set.
Quite a few will set but not grow them until night temperatures reach 60 F.

Point 6:  By "marketable" I mean fruit that are not mealy or tasteless, and without potassium defects (blotchy or uneven ripening).
There are many cold tolerant varieties that will even set and produce fruit at low temperatures, however the fruit produced is not worth eating.

I have grown PI120256 which was kindly shared by Dar Jones, and made several crosses with it.  Did not test for cold seed germination.   It had excellent cold tolerance for vegetative growth but didn't set any fruit until quite late in the game, when temperatures were warm.   It was however notably fast to grow and ripen its fruit once the set began.  It was a good tasting flat ruffled red (similar shape to Costuloto Genovese).   
I still have seeds of the original, from 2012 or 2013.