Author Topic: Solanum chilense  (Read 290 times)

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Solanum chilense
« on: 2021-02-08, 12:09:33 PM »
Was someone asking me for seeds for Solanum chilense awhile back?

I remember someone emailing me and i think i replied i didn't anymore. I was going through my seed stash and think i found several accessions of S. chilense.

Solanum chilense does not grow well for me ans will not set flowers before fall / winter.

If anyone wants these seeds, let me know!

-Andrew

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #1 on: 2021-02-08, 12:14:09 PM »
Also, as a side note, i found this old email from Alan Kapuler. Is anyone growing Alan Kapuler's Centerflor Tomatoes??

Quote
Maybe 10 years ago i crossed S. habrochaites v. glabratum to a cherry tomato (S. humboldtii, the Grape Tress tomato) and developed tomatoes with hundreds of flowers on an inflorescence. Then by growing them in a field of other tomatoes, Dylana, Mario and myself noticed that there were many more crosses than we had ever seen during 3 decades of growing tomatoes and harvesting their seeds. Yes, the centiflors have exerted sigmas and bumblebees and other pollinators love to visit them. I have not compared the different centiflors in terms of exerted stigmas.

Probably best to grow the different centiflors. Last year in growing a cross of S. chilense with likely S. pimpinellifolium, I had three F2's with other tomatoes in eight plants, each radically different from the other. Going to be a good year for tomato genetics.

If we hadn't saved the seeds and regrown them, we would not have discovered the outcrossing character of the cross of the wild species with known cultivars.

AMK

Garrett Schantz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #2 on: 2021-02-08, 02:29:22 PM »
I might have seed to share by the end of the year.

 I'm going the route of growing chilense in pots early inside, then moving them outside whenever I see a bunch of bees. I have it under 12 hours of light. One accession has two fruits, hasn't set anymore flowers though. Another accession is still quite small.

I have 4 accessions right now, will probably start more  of them in a week or so.

They won't be put outside till summer or late spring.

 A nice thing about chilense is that once they go through different lighting period /cycle- fall to spring, summer whatever, they seem to continue flowering. Being perennial helps with this as well.

William S.

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • Karma: 47
    • Botanist, gardener, and preservice science teacher.
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #3 on: 2021-02-08, 02:38:23 PM »
I could potentially use more S. Chilense accessions. Though have not yet grown an accession successfully. Maybe I should try again this year.

The only Alan Kapuler tomato I'm growing is the Golden Tressette which may be considered a centifor and is definitely exserted and the original packet contained at least one F1 that segregated wildly last year in the F2. Also think I have a new cross with it and a pimpinillifolium possibly the exserted pimpinillifolium you sent me Andrew. It basically was an exserted pimp in 2020 in a pot that shoyld have been tressette and I need to grow it again in the F2 and see if it segregates.  Should be fun.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-08, 02:43:24 PM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #4 on: 2021-02-08, 03:31:47 PM »
That is cool news Garrett!

William, if no one else is interested i would be happy to send you the seed. If multiple people are interested there might be enough to split and share with more than one person (I'll have to check).

It probably needs a greenhouse and a LONG season. Maybe it could be stepped on or stressed into flowering. But you have tried unsuccessfully like me, so you are already aware. Might be a good species for someone to mess with in California.

Garrett Schantz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #5 on: 2021-02-08, 03:53:02 PM »
I agree with the long season. Also seems to be a strict xerophyte. I tried watering the chilense more once fruits formed. Ended up with a good portion of the plants leaves drying up - something I don't see with other tomatoes. It's recovering now, a few weeks later. A single excess watering almost took it out.

The accession with fruits on it isn't very exciting with small flowers, isn't exerted, seems to be self compatible. Fruit is a pale white color right now.

So yeah California, New Mexico - a place with very little rain, well draining soil.

Mine are probably never leaving their pots because they will die if it rains.

Mostly doing this to try for peruvianum crosses. I'm assuming that at least one accession will cross with some of the exerted wild crosses as well.

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #6 on: 2021-02-08, 05:25:33 PM »
I agree with the long season. Also seems to be a strict xerophyte. I tried watering the chilense more once fruits formed. Ended up with a good portion of the plants leaves drying up - something I don't see with other tomatoes. It's recovering now, a few weeks later. A single excess watering almost took it out.

The accession with fruits on it isn't very exciting with small flowers, isn't exerted, seems to be self compatible. Fruit is a pale white color right now.

So yeah California, New Mexico - a place with very little rain, well draining soil.

Mine are probably never leaving their pots because they will die if it rains.

Mostly doing this to try for peruvianum crosses. I'm assuming that at least one accession will cross with some of the exerted wild crosses as well.

I'm not entirely surprised by the xerophyte assumption. Pure pennellii is somewhat like that as well.

I am growing an indoor banana plant and i am now using the Cactus Palm and Citrus Potting Soil Mix. I wonder if this soil mix would work well for S. chilense and pennellii. Since it is designed for palms and cacti i imagine it should be well draining.

I also have some mars regolith soil simulant. Very dry stuff. Basically fine red volcanic soil from hawaii. Might work well for this tomato species.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-08, 05:43:38 PM by Andrew Barney »

Chance

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: 11
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Cfa
  • Hardiness Zone: 7
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #7 on: 2021-02-09, 09:23:59 AM »
You could probably get this species to tolerate wet by grafting into domestic or other wet tolerant species.  Additionally, if you leave some of the stock shoots and they flower earlier you could get chilense to flower in long days.  Thirdly, you could also use grafting to break the wide cross barrier, as has been studied by Nirk in 1959.  Nirk broke wide cross barriers of domestic x peruvianum, but it only worked when the scion was grafted in the cotyledon stage.  So you could get a threefer with the right graft setup. Tomato grafting procedures are widely established now.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-14, 06:55:35 AM by Chance »

Chance

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60
  • Karma: 11
    • View Profile
  • Koppen zone: Cfa
  • Hardiness Zone: 7
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #8 on: 2021-02-09, 09:27:37 AM »
Here is the graft study with domestic and pennellii.  I may have some centiflor seed in the fridge still.

Garrett Schantz

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #9 on: 2021-02-10, 09:28:33 PM »
Figured I would post the fruit currently on the plant that I mentioned before.

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #10 on: 2021-02-13, 07:28:32 PM »
You could probably get this species to tolerate wet by grafting into domestic or other wet tolerant species.  Additionally, if you leave some of the stock shoots and they flower earlier you could get chilense to flower in long days.  Thirdly, you could also use grafting to break the wide cross barrier, as has been studied by Nirk in 1959.  Nirk broke wide cross barriers of domestic x pennellii, but it only worked when the scion was grafted in the cotyledon stage.  So you could get a threefer with the right graft setup. Tomato grafting procedures are widely established now.

An interesting idea. I forgot that LA1996 is a prebred from S. chilense ancestry. Perhaps LA1996 would make a good rootstock for S. chilense?

https://web.archive.org/web/20200929174346/https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/AccDetail.aspx?AccessionNum=LA1996

Regardless i think i will grow out LA1996 again this year. I really liked it as an edible fruit tomato and one with good breeding potential.

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #11 on: 2021-02-13, 07:34:33 PM »
I guess no one i emailed was asking for chilense seeds anymore.

Therefore, They are first come first served. Anyone who wants Solanum chilense seeds let me know again in this thread or otherwise. I think i could split it between 2 or 3 people still.

If anyone also wants seed for LA1996 (aft) tomato with some S. chilense ancestry please also let me know.

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #12 on: 2021-02-13, 07:37:44 PM »
as for the side chatter on the Kapuler bred tomatoes with wild tomato genetics they have several new ones this year!!

Quote
Hi yes just started offering some interesting new centiflor tomatos that came from outcrosses that we have been following for the last 10 years,   check out our blog peaceseedlingsseeds.blog.com as well as a few other ones that we have been offering for a few years.  "Sacred Heart" and "Handy Lady" were a few years ago,  this year "Lemon Lady"  which is very unique color and flavor,  and the "Plentiflor" series we started.  Geranium Kiss has also caught some attention recently
Thanks
Mario and Dylana

Tomatoes-

Amish Paste Solanum lycopersicum                                      30/ 3.00

Indeterminate vines with long lasting medium fruits, excellent

flavor, fresh or sauce. Heirloom

Andean Paste Solanum lycopersicum                                               25/ 3.00

Heirloom, indeterminate, 3-5” pointed fruits

Baylor Paste Solanum lycopersicum                                                 25/ 3.00

Red 3-4 oz egg shaped fruits on indeterminate vines, productive and long lasting.

Black Emperor Solanum lycopersicum                                 25/ 3.00

Purple, medium sized tomatoes on indeterminate plants.

Brad’s Black Oxheart Solanum lycopersicum                                 25/ 3.00

Indeterminate large dense purple tomato.

Red Centiflor Solanum lycopersicum                                                25/ 3.00

¾ in cherry tomatoes, in huge clusters, on indeterminate vines. Centi-flor=hundred flowers=hyper-tress, Bred by Peace Seeds.

Orange Centiflor Solanum lycopersicum                                         20/ 5.00

Indeterminate plants with hyper-tresses of orange tasty cherry tomatoes. Peace Seedlings Original.

Yellow Centiflor Solanum lycopersicum                                          25/ 3.00

Hyper-tresses of yellow cherry tomatoes on indeterminate vine, Peace Seeds original.

Chocolate Cherry Solanum lycopersicum                                        25/ 3.00

Excellent purple cherry tomato in the top 5 of 50 in our taste test. Indeterminate.

Sunrise Plentiflor Solanum lycopersicum                NEW               20/5.00

Epic hyper- tresses of early orange fruits with epic flavor.  Tresses have a mix of fruit sizes ranging from large cherries to medium slicers.  Peace Seedlings original       

Early Willamette Solanum lycopersicum                                         30/ 3.00

Early 1-3 oz red fruits in clusters,  semi-determinate bushes,  Breeding by Peace Seeds.

Fullmoon Kiss or Medallion Solanum lycopersicum                      30/ 5.00

Another one stake wonder; short 2 foot plants, with very productive hyper-tresses of 1 inch  yellow cherry tomatos, bred by Peace Seeds and Selected by Peace Seedlings

Geranium Kiss Solanum lycopersicum                                             30/ 3.00

Stocky 2ft determinate plants, w/ hyper-tresses of 20-70, 1oz fruits, 3-4 sets, a “one-stake wonder”

Unique Peace Seeds breeding.

Gold Plentiflor Solanum lycopersicum         NEW                          20/ 5.00

Extra large Hyper-tresses, of round great tasting salad tomatos. A mid-season sensation. Bred by Peace Seedlings.

Handy Lady Solanum lycopersicum                                     20/ 5.00

Hyper-tresses of extremely delicious slender pointed tip 2-3 inch long lasting fruits and plants. Peace Seedlings original.

Joe Pesch Solanum lycopersicum                                                       20/ 3.00

Indeterminate Italian heirloom. Unique shaped dense pink fruit.

Lemon Lady Solanum lycopersicum             NEW               20/5.00

A unique new hyper- tress tomato with light yellow 3in. slender fruits with a tangy, sweet flavor, bred By Peace Seedlings

Palestinian Solanum lycopersicum                                       25/ 3.00

Heirloom with very large flavorful fruits, 1/2-2# on indeterminate vines, from Palestine, Ohio.

Peacevine Cherry Solanum lycopersicum                             30/ 3.00

Vigorous indeterminate vines, great tasting cherry high in vitamin C and GABA, an amino acid and neurotransmitter. Peace Seeds breeding.

Sacred Heart Solanum lycopersicum                                      20/ 5.00

Beautiful Hyper-tresses of dense delicious medium sized fruits on indeterminate plants,  Peace Seedlings breeding.

Stupice  Solanum lycopersicum                                                         30/ 3.00

Very early indeterminate, productive clusters of medium fruits.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-13, 07:54:46 PM by Andrew Barney »

Andrew Barney

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
  • Karma: 40
  • Northern Colorado, Semi-Arid Climate, USA
    • Pea Breeding, Watermelon x Citron-melon, Purple Foliage Corn, Wild Tomatoes
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dfc / Dfb
  • Hardiness Zone: 5b
Re: Solanum chilense
« Reply #13 on: 2021-02-14, 09:32:00 AM »
You could probably get this species to tolerate wet by grafting into domestic or other wet tolerant species.  Additionally, if you leave some of the stock shoots and they flower earlier you could get chilense to flower in long days.  Thirdly, you could also use grafting to break the wide cross barrier, as has been studied by Nirk in 1959.  Nirk broke wide cross barriers of domestic x peruvianum, but it only worked when the scion was grafted in the cotyledon stage.  So you could get a threefer with the right graft setup. Tomato grafting procedures are widely established now.

Thinking on this again, i think grafting is the best way to make progress with this.

https://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Data/Acc/AccDetail.aspx?AccessionNum=LA4135

Accession: LA4135
S. lycopersicum (cv. VF36) x S. pennellii (LA0716); used as a graft rootstock to reproduce S. ochranthum, S. juglandifolium, and S. sitiens.

I have a few seeds of S. sitens that i might try to grow out this year. I'm thinking grafting onto S. pennellii hybrids is the best option. Maybe i should try it with S. chilense as well. And maybe i should even graft pure S. pennellii as well. And maybe S. peruvianum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhgsPkeZEbk