Author Topic: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020  (Read 142 times)

bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Would you be interested in doing some participatory plant breeding this year with Andean or wild potatoes, oca, or dahlia?  If so, please take a look at the link:
https://www.cultivariable.com/cultivariable-participatory-plant-breeding-projects-2020/

Ocimum

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #1 on: 2020-01-11, 02:25:31 AM »
Sounds interesting, sadly only USA.
Thanks anyway.

reed

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: 30
  • Narrow Ridge above the Ohio River zone 6a
    • View Profile
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #2 on: 2020-01-11, 03:56:15 AM »
I might be interested in the dahlias but have a couple of questions. Why is it necessary to grow the seedlings under lights? I don't have a whole lot of experience with them but from what I'v seen they are very easy to grow, I sprout them in a cold frame for transplant. 

Are yours a very large type? I don't have all that much space and when I grew Joseph's seeds the plants got way too big. They also spread a lot and some of the side branches tended to get too heavy and break.

I don't really have room for isolation, especially since the bees love them so much. Would I have to stop growing my own?

I have my own selection of much smaller plants that make good roots and have nice flavors, with less of that perfume like aftertaste.  I also don't have good storage so my favorite roots are in a pit outside, if they don't survive I could keep my seeds in storage for a season but If my roots are alive in spring I would not want to discard them.

add - I just thought, concerning the last part. Are you looking for return of tubers or of seeds? If tubers only then I guess crossing with mine wouldn't matter.
 
 
« Last Edit: 2020-01-11, 04:27:09 AM by reed »

nathanp

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 9
    • View Profile
    • Kenosha Potato Project - Facebook page
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #3 on: 2020-01-11, 05:51:11 AM »
Reed, I'm not sure about with Dahlias, but that may be more directed towards the pototo and oca seedlings.  With potatoes you really can't rely on ambient light, and you need at least 13 hours a day of light and longer is better.  In the early spring, you won't get that much light until April in the northern hemisphere so that mostly precludes greenhouse or cold frame germination without also using grow lights to get past the 13 hours point. Actual sunlight is better, but 16 hours or more is ideal even if it is grow lights.  Potatoes do require strong lighting, and I place my grow lights as close as 1/4" above the leaves.  You also can't get strong enough light if it is not either direct sunlight or grow lights.  Ambient light coming through a window is not enough to get strong seedlings to develop.  They end up just being weakly growing, spindly things with no vigor. 

reed

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: 30
  • Narrow Ridge above the Ohio River zone 6a
    • View Profile
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #4 on: 2020-01-11, 07:19:49 AM »
I didn't know that about the day length requirements for potatoes. Our longest day isn't 16 hours, maybe that's one reason overall that they don't produce much form seeds, at least not in my garden.

Bill, I followed your links and read your info about dahlias. I'm not well informed as far as the various species and don't know what kind mine are. I got some seeds from Baker Creek based on the description as being smaller plants with simple flowers and a note that they were edible. Then by surprise another company sent me some as a gift. All I know as far as kind is that they both were called mignon type.

I culled the patch down to about 50 or so pretty early on cause of poor performance or diseased looking plants and then in fall, dug and tasted the rest.

When I grew Joseph's a lot of them had what I would describe as a peppery flavor, which wasn't bad but also a lot of the perfume flavor which we don't like at all. In my patch this year there was less of the peppery flavor but the perfume flavor was pretty common.

The ones I ended up keeping had the least amount of perfume flavor and were all also quite sweet. One in particular tasted a lot like celery and couple reminded us of carrot. That's them in the second picture. The first picture is some early culls.

My selection criteria is for compact growth, good flavor, production quantity, disease resistance/tolerance and single petals flowers. Also want to get in some cold tolerance eventually with eye toward winter hardiness.


 

bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #5 on: 2020-01-11, 10:49:48 AM »
Sounds interesting, sadly only USA.
Thanks anyway.

Sorry, I should have included that in the post.

Ellendra

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #6 on: 2020-01-11, 11:00:36 AM »
Signed up!
Harsh winters, high winds. Temps on the edge between zones 4 and 5. Steep, north-facing slope. Soil is high in clay and rocks. Fast draining, which is a surprise for clay soil. Indicates a sandy/gravelly layer underneath.

William S.

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 418
  • Karma: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #7 on: 2020-01-11, 11:09:10 AM »
This is a good idea, I wish I had more capacity. Reading your link your prior results haven't been good. It increasingly strikes me that it's important to concentrate on one project. So if I were to participate, probably would want to concentrate on it and devote a lot of resources to up the chances of returning something useful. Currently concentrating on tomatoes.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian silty clay mollisoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #8 on: 2020-01-11, 12:56:31 PM »
I might be interested in the dahlias but have a couple of questions. Why is it necessary to grow the seedlings under lights? I don't have a whole lot of experience with them but from what I'v seen they are very easy to grow, I sprout them in a cold frame for transplant. 

I usually have better luck starting them under lights, but I have no problem with you doing things differently if you have experience.  I will probably get more than a hundred responses over the next few weeks and there is only so much of me to go around, so I am asking for capabilities that set more serious growers apart from the rest.  If you know what you're doing, you are welcome to do things your own way.

Are yours a very large type? I don't have all that much space and when I grew Joseph's seeds the plants got way too big. They also spread a lot and some of the side branches tended to get too heavy and break.

Large, small, and everything in between.  The dahlia seed that I send out will be from coccinea x variabilis crosses and they should be quite diverse.  Some of them could easily reach 5 feet tall in favorable climates.

I don't really have room for isolation, especially since the bees love them so much. Would I have to stop growing my own?

I have my own selection of much smaller plants that make good roots and have nice flavors, with less of that perfume like aftertaste.  I also don't have good storage so my favorite roots are in a pit outside, if they don't survive I could keep my seeds in storage for a season but If my roots are alive in spring I would not want to discard them.

add - I just thought, concerning the last part. Are you looking for return of tubers or of seeds? If tubers only then I guess crossing with mine wouldn't matter.

Right, I'm asking for tubers.  Any seeds are yours to keep and try again if you like.

bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #9 on: 2020-01-11, 01:01:03 PM »
Bill, I followed your links and read your info about dahlias. I'm not well informed as far as the various species and don't know what kind mine are. I got some seeds from Baker Creek based on the description as being smaller plants with simple flowers and a note that they were edible. Then by surprise another company sent me some as a gift. All I know as far as kind is that they both were called mignon type.

I culled the patch down to about 50 or so pretty early on cause of poor performance or diseased looking plants and then in fall, dug and tasted the rest.

When I grew Joseph's a lot of them had what I would describe as a peppery flavor, which wasn't bad but also a lot of the perfume flavor which we don't like at all. In my patch this year there was less of the peppery flavor but the perfume flavor was pretty common.

The ones I ended up keeping had the least amount of perfume flavor and were all also quite sweet. One in particular tasted a lot like celery and couple reminded us of carrot. That's them in the second picture. The first picture is some early culls.

My selection criteria is for compact growth, good flavor, production quantity, disease resistance/tolerance and single petals flowers. Also want to get in some cold tolerance eventually with eye toward winter hardiness.

Those sound like good criteria.  My first criterion is sweet tubers, or at least pleasant tasting.  I'm not a big fan of the radishy ones.  They all tend to have a bit of piney/resiny flavor, similar to yacon, but I prefer that flavor to be mild.  When it is strong, the tubers taste medicinal, even if they are sweet.

bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #10 on: 2020-01-11, 01:10:14 PM »
This is a good idea, I wish I had more capacity. Reading your link your prior results haven't been good. It increasingly strikes me that it's important to concentrate on one project. So if I were to participate, probably would want to concentrate on it and devote a lot of resources to up the chances of returning something useful. Currently concentrating on tomatoes.

It is a tricky problem.  If people are really serious, they probably are full up with their own breeding projects.  If they are too casual, then I spend money sending them stuff and never hear anything back.  I used to suggest complex, multi year selection and seed saving and I think that was too big an ask.  So, this year, I have reduced it to one time selection from seed that I provide.  I think that is something that more people can handle and, if they want to keep going after that, I'm all for it.

reed

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: 30
  • Narrow Ridge above the Ohio River zone 6a
    • View Profile
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #11 on: 2020-01-12, 03:37:05 AM »
I'm thinking of just buying some of the Dahlia coccinea seeds instead of formally participating in the project. The picture shows the flower type that I like and if they have been selected for food quality for several years that should really help my own project along.

Because of space I need to be able to cull out any that start getting too big and wouldn't feel right about that if I was part of the project. When I grew Joseph's seeds most of them got way too big, they were nearly as tall as me and with side branching turned into big bushes, the side branches broke down and the patch became ugly. They did make nice sized roots but had a lot of the bad, what I call perfume flavor. Some I didn't taste cause I left them in the ground to test for hardiness, none were.

The mignon ones were advertised as 18 - 24 inches but a lot of them turned out 3 - 4 feet. In my picture the one with the green ribbon is the only one that made decent size and flavor roots and that stayed under two feet tall. There were others that stayed smaller but had small bad flavor roots.


bill

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: 17
  • USA, WA Coast
    • View Profile
    • Cultivariable
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #12 on: 2020-01-17, 03:42:29 PM »
I have added three more projects for this year: potato onion, Smallanthus connatus/yacon, and horseradish.  Details are at the link in the original post.

esoteric_agriculture

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cultivariable Participatory Plant Breeding Projects for 2020
« Reply #13 on: 2020-01-18, 12:38:10 PM »
I would be interested. Iíll send an email shortly.
Very deep mildly acidic clay loam with abundant sandstone and quartzite gravel and stones. Very high water table, Border of Koppen climate Oceanic and Humid Subtropical, USDA Zone 6b, very windy frost pocket valley at the foot of a lonely mountain, historic dairy and orchard county.