Author Topic: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool  (Read 3750 times)

William Schlegel

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,711
  • Karma: 67
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
    • William's Instagram which is not set to public so message me if you want added
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool
« Reply #30 on: 2022-07-17, 04:58:47 PM »
Here is the F1 and mother of the previous F2 today still alive in my greenhouse. MMS x BH F1.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William Schlegel

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,711
  • Karma: 67
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
    • William's Instagram which is not set to public so message me if you want added
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool
« Reply #31 on: 2022-07-17, 08:29:24 PM »
A little hard to see, but here is the flower of Dwarf Fred's Tie Dye. I would characterize this as minor exsertion. Still though it shows that there is some potential for natural crosses amongst the dwarf tomato project.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

William Schlegel

  • Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,711
  • Karma: 67
    • Botanist, gardener, and science teacher.
    • View Profile
    • William's Instagram which is not set to public so message me if you want added
  • Koppen zone: Dfb Googled
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA zone 6A
Re: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool
« Reply #32 on: 2022-07-23, 03:58:21 PM »
I have a Xanadu Green Goddess plant with exsertion. Makes sense given its origin story as a natural cross.
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Kadence Luneman

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: 3
    • View Profile
  • Hardiness Zone: 6a, USDA
Re: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool
« Reply #33 on: 2022-07-29, 11:13:33 PM »
I haven't seen this yet and this seemed the most topical thread.. Do we know if there are specific genes for exserted stigma (style length?), not enclosed anther cone, larger flower? And if the genes are related? Like if I selected only for exertion do the other traits often show up? Thanks!

Joseph Lofthouse

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 435
  • Karma: 59
  • Great Basin desert, Rocky Mountains
    • Open Source Plant Breeding Forum, founder. World Tomato Society, ambassador. Plant Breeder. Yogi. Shaman.
    • View Profile
    • Garden.Lofthouse.com
    • Email
  • Koppen zone: Dsa
  • Hardiness Zone: USDA Zone 5
Re: Exserted tomatoes occasional out breeding a handy tool
« Reply #34 on: 2022-07-29, 11:32:19 PM »
I haven't seen this yet and this seemed the most topical thread.. Do we know if there are specific genes for exserted stigma (style length?), not enclosed anther cone, larger flower? And if the genes are related? Like if I selected only for exertion do the other traits often show up? Thanks!

There are a lot of inter-related genes. For example, we can get an exposed stigma if the style is long, or if the anthers are short. We can get an exposed stigma if the anthers are not connected with each other, or if they form a cylinder, or star,  instead of a cone. The beefsteak type flower structure is an example of an open flower (that may have small petals).

Early on, in the inter-species hybrids, I saw a lot of flower structures that self eliminated, for example a closed up flower, with the stigma totally inside the anther cones, and self-sterile, which doesn't make seed, so that particular set of traits doesn't get passed on.

As a general principle, populations that are more promiscuous tend to have larger and more open flowers.

Not very helpful, I know, but it's messy. Especially with inter-species crosses.

« Last Edit: 2022-07-30, 11:56:24 AM by Joseph Lofthouse »