Author Topic: A diverse patch of shallots  (Read 2133 times)

Steph S

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #45 on: 2020-05-19, 06:52:14 PM »
Some more pics:

Steph S

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #46 on: 2020-05-19, 06:56:22 PM »
And a couple more pics of the pretty shoots.   Tiny lime green one is of course the infamous "tuft" that might ??? be a cross of some kind. 

triffid

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #47 on: 2020-05-22, 05:45:32 AM »
They're looking great, very healthy and vigorous. And such diversity. Is each clump derived from a single seedling?

Here's a photo of a Ouddorpse Bruine scape. About 1cm diameter at the fattest point.


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Steph S

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #48 on: 2020-05-22, 06:22:25 AM »
Beautiful...  looks like your flowers will be white. 
I would love to know the history of selection that led to our European lines of shallots in A cepa aggregatum.   Were there crosses with onion for the larger bulb size, or were they able to select that from aggregatum alone.   

Yes, each clump in my patch came from a single seedling.    The biggest shoots at base are about 1/2 cm, but many of them are a bit smaller than that.   The larger shoots are about one in four. 
Flower buds which I measured last season went to a max of 1.5 cm diameter in the week before they first flowered.   I have a small group of plants that are already bolting now in May.   Need to get the others transplanted asap.   I am waiting on delivery of compost this morning, thank goodness I was able to get some.  :)  So the tomatoes will get potted out and I can start shallots and other things.

Ferdzy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #49 on: 2020-06-05, 06:51:13 PM »
I'm responding here about the shallots that Diane sent me back when this thread first started. I potted them up in two pots, put one in the fridge and one in the living room. Both sprouted almost immediately and grew well, especially once I move the first pot from the fridge to also the living room. Then I planted them out fairly early in the spring and I thought I had KILLED them because all the leaves promptly died and disappeared, even though I thought I had hardened them off sufficiently.

What that suggests to me is that these aren't French shallots either. My guess is that they might be Asian. I was looking at some Thai recipes the other day and seeing references to shallots with the note that Thai shallots are very small in comparison to European ones. That might explain their fainting away so completely at only just barely below freezing temperatures.

They do, finally, seem to be resprouting, so I think I have not lost them completely.

Steph S

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #50 on: 2020-06-05, 07:25:10 PM »
Glad to hear they're coming back...  I know you caught some of that Arctic air in may, that kept us really cool as well.

Some of my original seedlings didn't survive the frost and snow that hit them after transplant, but whatever did survive seems to be insanely hardy.  They have been well ahead of both the garlic and the Egyptian Onions this year - not even to mention Hardy Evergreens and another A fistulosum, and the leeks, all of which are still pretty scrawny after the brutal winter.   So they seem to be worth keeping as the earliest green onion, if nothing else.
I regret that I couldn't move them earlier in the year because they got large so quickly, but beds weren't ready for them until late May.



Steph S

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #51 on: 2020-06-05, 07:35:54 PM »
So this is my experiment, to try and get bulbs from these mature shoots.   I decided to trim them tops and roots as is recommended for onion starts, and space them about 1- 1.5 inches apart in rows.
IDK if this is going to work or not.  One thing that has happened already is that they are stressed by the top cut and those tops yellowed.  We managed to have crazy hot weather and howling wind for three days just after the move.  :o   Had to water every day, even twice a day.  The second thing, they have pretty well all produced buds since I transplanted them a few days ago.  So there's been a bud nipping chore which I guess is part of the deal.   On the plus side, the buds are pretty delicious.  :)  And the other plus, I am seeing a little new shoot coming out after the bud is nipped, so there's a chance they'll at least survive the ordeal.  :-[  We shall see...


Willy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #52 on: 2020-09-14, 09:05:04 AM »
Triffid,

Have you compared Ouddorpse to Shallot Hative de Niort ? I haven't seen any actual pictures of Hative de Niort so not sure about its history.

Thanks!!

triffid

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #53 on: 2020-09-14, 01:28:12 PM »
Hi Willy,
Yes I grew them both this season, they are quite different.

Hâtive de Niort is more elegant in form with a tall neck and smooth symmetrical bulb. Divides 'cleanly' (ie. no incomplete bulbing under the skin) into clusters of 3-5. It's held in high regard here in England as an exhibition shallot, but I know nothing of its history. I assume it hails from Niort! Yellow-brown skin, occasional purple speck. No scapes.

Ouddorpse Bruine has squat-round bulbs that form clumps of up to 13 divisions. Some have an irregular appearance because there may be an additional one to two smaller bulbs (cloves?) dividing and forming under the skin. It formed an abundance of seedheads and flowers but very few seeds - about two dozen. Skin is reddish brown. I believe it was introduced in the 1940s.
I can take some photos tomorrow when I have daylight.
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triffid

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #54 on: 2020-09-14, 01:43:13 PM »
Ferdzy did the Ste-Annes end up developing any fertile flowers or bulbils?
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Ferdzy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #55 on: 2020-09-14, 05:22:15 PM »
Triffid, I was just thinking I should update about them shortly. They sent up stalks which developed bulbils. I did not see any flowers or seed - bulbils only. In fact, I have collected the bulbils and tossed them into a new spot, and they are coming up already. I just did this last week, I think. It's been rainy, and not too cool.

In general they looked pretty ratty during mid-summer, but did not die down. Now they have greened up a lot and are looking quite good. They do seem to be a little susceptible to botrytis which will be a problem. I already decided to eliminate my walking onions because they were acting as a perennial reservoir for botrytis. Gah.

triffid

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #56 on: 2020-09-15, 01:02:32 PM »
Ah sorry about the rot, but glad to hear they're reproducing nevertheless. I wonder if dipping the dormant bulbs in bleach solution would help at all.
Have you eaten any? How do they compare to your eschalote grise?

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Ferdzy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #57 on: 2020-09-15, 01:20:47 PM »
I don't actually have any eschalote grise. That's my problem. I'd love to make comparisons, but everything I have gotten under that name has seemed highly suspect at best. I'm pretty sure what Dianne sent me may be a real shallot, but I'm also pretty sure it's Asian rather than French, given how badly it reacted to cold temperatures.

I would be reluctant to use bleach but I am considering both plain ol' dish detergent and also hydrogen peroxide soaks as fungal treatments for various things. May try that when they get moved this fall.

It's embarrassing to admit, but I've hardly tasted any of my shallotty things this summer. Hoping to change that in the next few weeks. I did chew on some of the leaves of Steph's shallots that she sent me seed for. In addition to looking like chives, it tastes a little like chives... and yet, I'm pretty sure it's not chives. Could it be a cross between chives and something else though? They are certainly intriguing and I am glad to have them.

Willy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #58 on: 2020-09-15, 01:44:44 PM »
I have a bunch of French Greys originally from Territorial Seed Co. in Oregon if you are interested.

Ferdzy

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Re: A diverse patch of shallots
« Reply #59 on: 2020-09-15, 03:00:14 PM »
Willy, thanks for the offer but I'm in Canada, and that would (properly) be seized at the border. Canada is pretty open about seeds traveling in, but live plant material (such as shallot bulbs) are a no-go. Ohhhh well. Somebody in this country must have them!