Author Topic: Interspecies squash hybrids  (Read 10302 times)

William Schlegel

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #45 on: 2021-02-15, 10:21:14 AM »
https://www.rareseeds.com/store/vegetables/winter-squash/butternut-orange-squash

I was looking through the Baker Creek catalogue and noticed this Butternut Orange squash. Reminded me of a post by Joseph about Moschatamax. Maybe some small evidence of past introgression?

Would be neat to get the butternut shape with the solid flesh portion into a maxima.

I let my maximoss kind of just mix freely with my main maxima grex which I haven't grown out since 2019 and won't for awhile. Since I'm going to grow out Lofthouse Buttercup again for seed in 2021. So there could be untracked traits that show up the next time I do grow it. I think I do have some marked packets saved from a few obvious maximoss.
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Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #46 on: 2021-02-15, 11:00:03 AM »
There was one fruit this year in the Moschamax with the maxima skin color, and a few with the maxima stripes.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-15, 11:08:20 AM by Joseph Lofthouse »

Diane Whitehead

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #47 on: 2021-02-15, 11:10:20 AM »
Baker Creek sells Yokohama, a strange looking moschata - black and bumpy.

 William Woys Weaver wrote in Mother Earth News “the ‘Yokohama’ possesses one of the most complex flavors I have run across in any squash or pumpkin I have grown. Everyone’s taste buds are different, but I detect hints of Asian pear, mango, avocado, lemon balsam, and if you have experience with tropical fruits, the unmistakable aroma of sapote. Can this be a squash?”

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Joseph Lofthouse

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #48 on: 2021-02-15, 11:10:59 AM »
The Mospermia are getting more color in the flesh. It's been a slow process. Too bad that I'm so adverse to manual pollination. Not adverse, just a 7 to 11 mile commute to my fields.

Chance

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #49 on: 2021-02-15, 12:43:00 PM »
Garrett, what are your plans with martinezii? Apparently it can be used to cross moschata and pepo.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #50 on: 2021-02-15, 01:46:53 PM »
I just realized i may have accidentally bred a maxi-moss one year. :(

This would have been an accidental cross between (the now unavailable) Hopi Black Squash (moschata) and my Wild Pueblo (maxima) (now also gone). I had sent all my seeds of this to Joseph in the year he had to flee and abandon lots of his seeds. I'm sad i didn't take better care of the seeds from these. Oh, well. Live and learn. Always keep backup seed (even if your not sure you want to).

the photo with the green fruit is the moschata parent. It later ripened to a golden-brown sortof color. The orange one is what i believe was it's hybrid offspring.



« Last Edit: 2021-02-16, 09:25:39 AM by Andrew Barney »

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #51 on: 2021-02-15, 01:58:45 PM »
Garrett, what are your plans with martinezii? Apparently it can be used to cross moschata and pepo.

 Martinezii seemed interesting due to being in a different "group" than the cultivated types. But yeah, I have read about the moschata - pepo hybrids being possible with a martinezii x moschata as a parent. C.lundelliana was of more interest to me though.

 C.pepo has a large amount of ornamental gourds, unique colorations- shapes found in the species.

 Goblin Egg Mix has quite a few bicolored fruit - different bicolor from Autumn's Choice, could probably mix these to see what kind of colorations / patterns show up.

 Shenot Crown of Thorns has interesting shapes / patterns as well.

Pattypan squash varieties have a fun shape as well.

 I would like to see some summer squashes become sweeter or have a longer shelf life as well. Longer-thicker zucchini may be nice if its still versatile / easy to use.
 There are C.pepo crooknecks, but they appear to be quite a bit smaller than C.moschata crooknecks.

I have a long warted off type squash from a mix that I bought at a store. Usually supposed to be all black, this one was half yellow half black. The others turned black pretty quickly.

Things like "New England Pie Pumpkin" or other C.pepo pie pumpkins are subpar to moschata / maxima types in my opinion. Suppose I could still add them if I had martinezii though.

 For me adding pepos into moschata types would probably just be for adding in ornamental fruits into tastier squash, or to obtain sweeter summer squash. Moschata / Maximas hybrids have some nice looking types already though.


 Although I am still doubting that I will receive the order due to my climate, if I do end up receiving them, they will started early indoors using biodegradable pots. I will also continue growing some inside just in case outdoor plants die.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #52 on: 2021-02-16, 09:28:31 AM »
I just got word that the only person who grew the black Hopi moschata is going to send me seed from Canada. I thought it was lost for good. Now if i can track down and get more seed of the wild hopi squash from Moab, UT I can see if i can recreate this squash. I'm planning a trip to Moab this summer, so maybe i can try to find the wild one and collect a sample to grow out myself. I don't have high hopes, but i can try!

kal52

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #53 on: 2021-02-17, 04:31:43 PM »
Hello! I am planning to start a tetsu-based maxima/moschata population this year with the goal of combining moschata pest resistance with maxima flavor (I'm in upstate NY and maximas can really struggle here).

 I'm wondering two things -

1) if anybody knows of a source of Joseph's maximoss (or would even be willing to share!), as I thought it might be fun to take a look at that as its already farther along.

 2) I'm also curious what others might have experienced with crossing tetsu with a maxima vs. moschata, in terms of what traits they found to come through in the subsequent generations. I did see a comment from Joseph above that if he started over, he would use a moschata pollen parent. Such a fascinating thread, I'm so grateful for all the information that's been shared here! 

William Schlegel

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #54 on: 2021-02-17, 08:42:09 PM »
 You can get Lofthouse moschata on experimental farm network. That would work well for crossing with Tetsukabuto to recreate moschatamax. Lofthouse buttercup isn't listed right now, not sure why.

I'll be growing Lofthouse buttercup again for seed in 2021 unless plans change for some reason. That means I'll only be growing a small amount of my own G2 from Tetsukabuto, isolated at the house. Maybe just one plant or none, not sure.

I have ten more Tetsukabuto to open for seed and more than that still of Lofthouse Buttercup. Somewhere I have a little impure seed left of a maximoss. My thought was to go big on a growout of that combined with the new Tetsukabuto. My ideal find would be a Tetsukabuto pollinated by the G2 of Autumn's choice which itself may have been pollinated in the prior generation by either Lofthouse, or Mike Jenning's gRex wich was also part Lofthouse. However the buttercup did better so is the more likely pollen donor for the bulk of the seeds. Also now am scaling that back in favor of the buttercup.

So I do have plenty of seed I can't grow next year especially of the Tetsukabuto G2 except it is mostly still inside the squashes.

I wouldn't hesitate to grow Tetsukabuto either it seems like a good squash it is like a dark orange moschata pumpkin on the inside and it will pick up genes from whatever maxima and or moschata you choose as a pollen parent.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-17, 08:49:13 PM by William S. »
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William Schlegel

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #55 on: 2021-02-17, 08:53:09 PM »
Also if I remember right. I have some Tetsukabuto F1 seed leftover. That I may plant with the Autumn's choice G3 Moschata to try to get good flavor along with that cool banded pattern I like.
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Adrian

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #56 on: 2021-02-17, 10:31:32 PM »
The parents of tetsukabuto the mosts probable for me are red kury and violino rugosa.
I would increase the orange color of violino rugosa.


« Last Edit: 2021-02-17, 10:57:21 PM by Adrian »

Adrian

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #57 on: 2021-02-20, 01:22:04 AM »
I don't understand why they have choose green delicious as parent with futsu kurokawa.The peel of futsu kurokawa has a ribbed peel and its a  not dominant gene.Green delicious has a smouth peel.For a best quality of peel i would choosed a maxima with ribbed peel.
« Last Edit: 2021-02-20, 01:29:37 AM by Adrian »

kal52

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #58 on: 2021-02-23, 12:36:23 PM »
Thanks all! I am thinking I'll make some crosses between tetsu and one of the smaller moschatas that do well in our area, and probably also let it open pollinate with a maxima population as well, just to try it both ways.  I will definitely keep you all posted :)

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Interspecies squash hybrids
« Reply #59 on: 2021-02-26, 08:07:08 PM »
You can get Lofthouse moschata on experimental farm network. That would work well for crossing with Tetsukabuto to recreate moschatamax. Lofthouse buttercup isn't listed right now, not sure why.

I'll be growing Lofthouse buttercup again for seed in 2021 unless plans change for some reason. That means I'll only be growing a small amount of my own G2 from Tetsukabuto, isolated at the house. Maybe just one plant or none, not sure.

I have ten more Tetsukabuto to open for seed and more than that still of Lofthouse Buttercup. Somewhere I have a little impure seed left of a maximoss. My thought was to go big on a growout of that combined with the new Tetsukabuto. My ideal find would be a Tetsukabuto pollinated by the G2 of Autumn's choice which itself may have been pollinated in the prior generation by either Lofthouse, or Mike Jenning's gRex wich was also part Lofthouse. However the buttercup did better so is the more likely pollen donor for the bulk of the seeds. Also now am scaling that back in favor of the buttercup.

So I do have plenty of seed I can't grow next year especially of the Tetsukabuto G2 except it is mostly still inside the squashes.

I wouldn't hesitate to grow Tetsukabuto either it seems like a good squash it is like a dark orange moschata pumpkin on the inside and it will pick up genes from whatever maxima and or moschata you choose as a pollen parent.

 Lofthhouse Landrace Buttercup Squash seems to be available on the Experimental Farm Network now if anyone is still looking for it.