Author Topic: Breeding with wild tomato species  (Read 8512 times)

William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #165 on: 2021-03-26, 12:03:29 PM »
Jeremy I think that's perfectly on topic since it's a wild species breeding question.

I have not. I do have a suitable pimpinillifolium or pimpinillifolium hybrid planted and a couple green when ripes planted for 2021. So in theory in about ten weeks I could potentially make such a cross. Maybe remind me then?

I bet somewhere someone in the world already has. Knowing Tom Wagner if you asked him he would say he did such a cross twenty years ago. So you might poke around a bit. Seems like there are some green when ripe cherries around already. Fot instance you could try Bosque Green Cherry from Lee Goodwin's J and L gardens http://jandlgardens.com/xencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=255

Which has some Hirsutum genes (habrochaites older name) according to the description.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-26, 12:24:48 PM by William S. »
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Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #166 on: 2021-03-26, 12:26:26 PM »
My habrochaites x pimpinellifolium F2 might have a few green when ripe types. If I find any, I will mention it here. I could make an F3 this year if you want. Lot of different leaf types are appearing too, might be nice.

I got the cross naturally, planted a few habrochaites around a slightly exerted pimpinellifolium and screened out for off type seedlings. F1 had currant sized slightly  hairy orange fruit - no actual flesh inside, nice looking flowers- but they were small.

Chiapas wild from Nativeseeds looks somewhat exerted, Alberto Shatters from restorationseeds is exerted.
« Last Edit: 2021-03-26, 03:20:10 PM by Garrett Schantz »

reed

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #167 on: 2021-03-26, 04:01:00 PM »
A lot of tomatoes grow well for me Pimpinellifolium is one of the most reliable, suffering very little from disease. I have a number of their offspring from an unknow, accidental cross that happened several years ago. No green when ripe ones but one that shows up now and then (I mostly just let them volunteer) is pale yellow with a lot of green on the end. Unfortunately it is also the only one that is not good, nearly flavorless and what flavor it does have is unpleasant. I actually cull it out once identified each year. All the others ranging in size from that of a pea to that of a ping pong ball and in color from red to yellow are all very sweet. 

My original pimpinellifolium has red pea sized fruits and has anything but open flowers or exerted stigmas but the small bees seem to like it quite a lot anyway. I guess that's how the initial cross happened.  Regardless of the fruits, the foliage and growth habit of all of them looks just like the original pimpinellifolium. 

William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #168 on: 2021-03-26, 07:20:55 PM »
I found a probable pimpinillifolium cross with golden Tressette last year. Growing it again this year. Should be fun.
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Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #169 on: 2021-03-26, 08:23:32 PM »
I grew neorickii and chmielewskii from seed last year, they got toasted due to a heat wave. I also had to go somewhere first day after I planned on planting them in the garden. Probably could have watered them if I was home.

Would have been nice to add them into my S. pimpinillifolium / S. galapagense, S. cheesemanii project - they cross fairly well with domestics and they aren't really in the main promiscuous groups either.


Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #170 on: 2021-03-30, 05:43:46 PM »
I should have some habro - pimp seedlings to post in a few days. The first true leaves should be larger by that time.

In the meantime here is another peruvianum image. One of the seedlings from Joseph's group is larger than the others. The smaller type that I posted before has hardly grown at all.


Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #171 on: 2021-04-05, 09:29:44 PM »
Some Pimpinillifolium x Habrochaites seedlings. Just a look at the first set of leaves.

I didn't use LA1777 as the parent - leaves were all huge and glossy, some other differences.

Mentioned this already - the pimpinillifolium had small leaves.

So if the leaves don't look like anyone else's habrochaites crosses, there is the reasoning.

The main leaf type probably won't show up in these for a while.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #172 on: 2021-04-07, 03:34:52 PM »
I found a packet of 5 seeds of G3 Fern x LA1777 today.

William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #173 on: 2021-04-07, 04:25:55 PM »
I found a packet of 5 seeds of G3 Fern x LA1777 today.

The fern trait popped up in one of my promiscuous growouts last year. Unfortunately I planted it in a bad spot with Low N and it got dwarfed to nothing.
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Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #174 on: 2021-04-07, 05:12:35 PM »
The peruvianum from J&L Gardens is pretty interesting so far. Different leaf type from other peruvianums that I'm growing. Trichomes are definitely more noticeable than the other types. Seedlings resemble habrochaites more than peruvianum. Has a lemony smell - J&L says cilantro smell. Different from the habrochaites "lemon smell".  Will have to see if the scent stays once its fully grown.

The fruit is supposed to be bitter and small / green. Suppose I will need to breed a better fruit using other accessions.

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #175 on: 2021-04-07, 05:18:49 PM »
I found a few tomato seedlings outside in the corners of an herb bed as well. Cotlydeons are very red. They look fine. Assuming the borders helped insulate the seedlings. Probably wilds.

William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #176 on: 2021-04-07, 06:33:59 PM »
I found a few tomato seedlings outside in the corners of an herb bed as well. Cotlydeons are very red. They look fine. Assuming the borders helped insulate the seedlings. Probably wilds.

In 2017 I had tomatoes germinating outside by about may 5th. Ten days before average last frost on May 15th. That's the earliest I have noticed since I started direct seeding that same year by about ten days. What is your average last frost date?
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days

Garrett Schantz

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #177 on: 2021-04-07, 09:55:03 PM »
In 2017 I had tomatoes germinating outside by about may 5th. Ten days before average last frost on May 15th. That's the earliest I have noticed since I started direct seeding that same year by about ten days. What is your average last frost date?


Average for my area is May 16th. Seems like a day later than you.

It has been in the 60F - 70F range the past few days. The most recent frost was weeks ago. It did snow last week, but no frost. I should probably move the seedlings somewhere else before it gets colder again.

William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #178 on: 2021-04-07, 10:05:30 PM »
Yeah weeks since frost and 60-70 range will get tomatoes germinating. That would be very unusual here now because of the cold air from the mountains.
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William S.

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Re: Breeding with wild tomato species
« Reply #179 on: 2021-04-10, 12:42:38 AM »
I have been thinking about traits that make handy breeding tools.

Two that segregate nicely in seedlings are potato leaf and dwarf project type dwarf.

Used in a obligate outcrossing program it strikes me that potato leaf might be a handy trait.

Didn't Brad get crossed in generations back? Anyone have any potato leaf seedlings in current populations?

A potato leaf obligate in theory would only produce regular leaf offspring if pollinated by homozygous regular leaf pollen donors.

On a only somewhat related note I notice a few seedlings with leaves that look like the habrochaites seedlings. I think that if all else is equal I will select those for seed saving.
« Last Edit: 2021-04-10, 01:26:55 AM by William S. »
Western Montana garden, glacial lake Missoula sediment lacustrian parent material and shallow 7" silty clay loam mollisoil topsoil sometimes with added sand in places. Zone 6A with 100 to 130 frost free days