Author Topic: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids  (Read 6816 times)

Dominic J

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #45 on: 2020-01-30, 12:47:17 PM »
Those seeds sure are pretty!

Andrew Barney

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #46 on: 2020-01-30, 06:58:28 PM »
Those seeds sure are pretty!

You might like this photo then!

Dominic J

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #47 on: 2020-01-31, 05:32:34 AM »
I do! Nice color! Uniform, too, unless you did that by hand. ;)

Which reminds me of some of the seeds I ordered last Fall from some suppliers. Kinda makes you chuckle when you order seeds for a variety that has seed color in its name, and the seeds you get are all kinds of different colors.

Dominic J

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #48 on: 2020-02-06, 12:52:49 PM »
Can you elaborate on the delayed maturity gene you mentioned?

Andrew Barney

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #49 on: 2020-02-06, 07:38:11 PM »
Can you elaborate on the delayed maturity gene you mentioned?

Yeah, i can try.

Citron melons have a lot of pectin and they also have a yellow rind ripening gene that i suspect is very similar to the domestic "go" gene. I have read of people storing Citron melons (aka. jam melon) for over a year. When they get that old apparently they turn yellow and the flesh starts to get soft. Hence they seem to have some sort of a delayed ripening cycle. Since they are from africa, this could just be tied to being adapted to a longer growing season. But would be handy in a variety specifically bred to be a "winter watermelon".

Awhile back i ran into a guy from Belarus on a tomato forum. He shared with me that there is a Russian bred watermelon variety that stores after being picked (and is ripe enough to eat) that they can store 3-5 months until about New Years. He also said that as they do they gradually get sweeter and sweeter. After doing some research i learned of an old USSR breeding experiment where they bred domestic watermelons with wild citron melons. This was done at the USSR Bykov Melon Production Experiment Station somewhere around 1950 or earlier. It turns out this variety that stores 3-5 months was bred from the Bykov Melon Production Experiment Station and seems to have citron melon striping patterns on it. A coincidence? I think not. The variety is called "kholodok".

https://keen101.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/wide_hybridization_in_plants_tsitsin1.pdf



Quote from: @keen101" source="/post/126729/thread" timestamp="1515885589
There is a guy over on the tomato forum that is talking about a VERY interesting watermelon variety that i believe to have Citron ancestry!

This is some of what he had to say so far. I told him i thought it did, but he was not so sure. I haven't heard is latest reply yet, but it has citron ancestry i'm 98% positive it does!

[quote ="Andrey_BY;677977"]I don't think there is something about Citron here, but Charleston Grey watermelon was one of cross lines to improve desease tolerance.

They have been growing watermelons for ages in Astrakhan and Volgograd areas of the Russian South. From XII century they have been growing great watermelons keeping seeds from the best big size (20-25 kg) watermelons sending their harvest to the central part of Russia by ships via great river Volga!
Since 1930 there is an old special melon breeding station near Volgograd called Bykovskaya there this variety Kholodok was born in 1990 from a cross of 3 watermelon varieties (Melitopolskiy 143 x Kuzylbay x Charlestone Grey). Its breeder name Klavdiya Sincha is famous over the world. She is a mother of 40 great watermelon varieties during her 60 years of watermelon breeding since 1944.

And there were several delegations from USA there in XX century who were impressed by tasting old Russion varieties and took many seeds back from this place. So I believe many modern foreign OP and hybrid watermelon varieties have Russian ancestry;)
Kholodok has a typical oval shape for mid late Russian watermelons and you can keep it till New Year party (3-5 months). Usual weight is 7-30 kg, no overripe and the taste is improving after 1 month of storage.
I told him about the distinctive rind pattern that i have not seen in any other watermelon other than the citron melons i have grown. It is very distinctive once you get to know it. And the fact that it can store 3-5 months says that it has citron ancestry! And that it was also bred at a later time at the very same Bykov Melon Production Experiment station where these citron-watermelon hybrids were bred in the USSR i find it VERY hard to believe they would have given up on that research and those breeding lines.

So now i want to find seed for this "Kholodok" watermelon variety!![/quote]

« Last Edit: 2020-02-06, 07:42:15 PM by Andrew Barney »

ImGrimmer

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #50 on: 2020-02-12, 01:23:43 AM »

ImGrimmer

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #51 on: 2020-12-01, 11:54:59 AM »
I saw this red seeded watermelon on FB today



it is called Illiniwek/Ireniwaki Red Seeded watermelon

Dominic J

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #52 on: 2020-12-01, 12:27:55 PM »
That's a curious shape, for a watermelon.

Jeremy Weiss

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #53 on: 2020-12-01, 12:39:57 PM »
For a modern melon yes, but "necked" watermelons are not unknown in really old strains. I've seen them before.

Andrew Barney

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #54 on: 2020-12-01, 12:45:11 PM »
Probably "art combes red seeded". I believe that variety is known to have occasional necked watermelon segregates, which is indeed an interesting mutation. There was a lady on permies who was trying to save seeds from only the necked watermelon and was going to send me seeds, but never did. Baker creek sold the necked version several years ago I think.

ImGrimmer

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #55 on: 2020-12-01, 01:15:29 PM »
The thread that I found in this variety has even more unusual watermelon varieties.


Andrew Barney

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #57 on: 2020-12-25, 11:23:14 PM »
[quote ="Andrey_BY;677977"]
Kholodok has a typical oval shape for mid late Russian watermelons and you can keep it till New Year party (3-5 months). Usual weight is 7-30 kg, no overripe and the taste is improving after 1 month of storage.
[/quote]

I decided to try finally opening my "Christmas Watermelon" for this year. It was soft but only had a brix of 4% (an improvement over 2%). I actually think it was under-ripe, so maybe i should aim for breeding a New Years watermelon instead of a christmas watermelon? Except it was fairly soft, so it probably was not overripe. Still, it is a fun project.  ;D The "go" gene for yellow/gold rind ripening would come in VERY handy for this project.

Does someone want to try crossing these seeds with an improved gold-skin watermelon?

If anyone is interested in this sub-project for winter storage watermelons, I would be willing to share some of the limited seed with anyone who would like to try crossing it with the Russian Kholodok watermelon variety which is already reported as a winter watermelon variety.
« Last Edit: 2020-12-25, 11:26:32 PM by Andrew Barney »

Andrew Barney

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Re: Colorado Red Seeded Citron Melon x Watermelon Hybrids
« Reply #58 on: 2020-12-25, 11:29:41 PM »
here is the other picture.